Running Bear's September 2022 Coffee Shop

[Boris]

The Ukrainian language and country are older than Russia and Russian, is derived from Finnish.

Unfortunately, my knowledge of that part of the world leaves much to be desired. Lithuania, is a Baltic Country, that Borders Russia, and Poland. It is not all that far from Finland either. From what I understand, the Lithuanian language was the Peasant Language, and the Languages of Commerce were Russian and Polish. My source was someone who studied the culture he descended from. Others, immigrants who actually lived there, disputed that claim. All I remember, was that my mother and grandmother did not want my Grandfather to speak Russian, (or Polish), possibly because they didn't know what he was saying to others..

Bottom line, is I'm not sure what the factual answer is, and I would caution about similar misconceptions concerning Russian vs. Ukrainian language.
Before Putin invaded, we heard very little about that country, and then it was about corruption in their government, and allegations about certain prominent politically connected Americans.

 

[chadbag]

Ok, bit confused here. You have a Ukrainian refugee that only speaks Russian, correct? That's weird, most Ukrainians speak both, having to learn Russian in school when Ukrain was still part of the USSR

A lot of the ethnically Russians in the east of Ukraine are native Russian speakers and I read an article about how many of them are trying to learn Ukrainian (as they consider themselves Ukrainian) and want to participate in the greater Ukraine society.

Nothing to do with learning Russian in the USSR. Stalin moved Russians all over to try and ethnically merge the various Soviet states into a Russian dominated one. Central Asian countries, the Baltics, etc all have large Russian minorities that were transplanted there during USSR tiems (mostly during Stalin IIRC).

 

[chadbag]

My understanding is that only Russian speaking Ukrainians come from the Dombas Slobozhanshchyna and southern parts of Odessa and Zaporizhia oblasts regions.

Fun fact.

The Ukrainian language and country are older than Russia and Russian, is derived from Finnish.

No. Ukrainian language is not derived from Finnish. Ukrainian language is a Slavic language, as is Russian. Ukraine considers themselves the founding state for Russia as Kiev was the center of the Slavic universe way before Moscow was much more than a backwater city. Eventually the center moved to Moscow and St Petersburg.

The language you are thinking of is Hungarian, I believe. Or maybe some of the dead or almost dead languages from the north Urals. Hungarian and Finnish are both Finno-Ugric languages, and not Indo-European like the Romance, Germanic, Slavic, Baltic (Old Baltic, not necessarily that spoken in those countries today), Indo-Iranian, etc languages. But Hungarian is not derived from Finnish. They are just in the same larger family, like German, French, and Russian are all part of the Indo-European family.

List of Indo-European languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Finno-Ugric languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[chadbag]

Unfortunately, my knowledge of that part of the world leaves much to be desired. Lithuania, is a Baltic Country, that Borders Russia, and Poland. It is not all that far from Finland either. From what I understand, the Lithuanian language was the Peasant Language, and the Languages of Commerce were Russian and Polish. My source was someone who studied the culture he descended from. Others, immigrants who actually lived there, disputed that claim. All I remember, was that my mother and grandmother did not want my Grandfather to speak Russian, (or Polish), possibly because they didn't know what he was saying to others..

Bottom line, is I'm not sure what the factual answer is, and I would caution about similar misconceptions concerning Russian vs. Ukrainian language.
Before Putin invaded, we heard very little about that country, and then it was about corruption in their government, and allegations about certain prominent politically connected Americans.

Old Baltic became both Latvian and Lithuanian. It was the language of the natives. However, German became the language of the upper classes and trade (and probably, as you say, Polish and later Russian as those empires grew and conquered -- Poland and Lithuania were a big empire in the later middle ages) as the Germans settled the Baltic area -- first in the middle ages with the Teutonic Knights and other related Orders conquering, and later being invited in the late middle ages and wholesale large masses moving there and founding towns and stuff, while the natives lived more in the country side. It is interesting reading.

History of Lithuania - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

History of Latvia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

History of Estonia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Neither Latvian or Lithuanian is related to Finnish though Estonian is.

It is interesting to look at the history of the Russian Empire and how many of the generals and admirals from Napoleonic times up through the Russian Revolution had German names. They were the sons of the landed gentry in the Baltics, that were fully part of the Russian Empire by then.

 

[Smudge617]

No. Ukrainian language is not derived from Finnish. Ukrainian language is a Slavic language, as is Russian. Ukraine considers themselves the founding state for Russia as Kiev was the center of the Slavic universe way before Moscow was much more than a backwater city. Eventually the center moved to Moscow and St Petersburg.

The language you are thinking of is Hungarian, I believe. Or maybe some of the dead or almost dead languages from the north Urals. Hungarian and Finnish are both Finno-Ugric languages, and not Indo-European like the Romance, Germanic, Slavic, Baltic (Old Baltic, not necessarily that spoken in those countries today), Indo-Iranian, etc languages. But Hungarian is not derived from Finnish. They are just in the same larger family, like German, French, and Russian are all part of the Indo-European family.

List of Indo-European languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Finno-Ugric languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sorry I stand corrected, thanks.

 

[Smudge617]

A lot of the ethnically Russians in the east of Ukraine are native Russian speakers and I read an article about how many of them are trying to learn Ukrainian (as they consider themselves Ukrainian) and want to participate in the greater Ukraine society.

Nothing to do with learning Russian in the USSR. Stalin moved Russians all over to try and ethnically merge the various Soviet states into a Russian dominated one. Central Asian countries, the Baltics, etc all have large Russian minorities that were transplanted there during USSR tiems (mostly during Stalin IIRC).

Ok, let me re phrase it. Russia forced every non Russian to learn Russian, and tried to eradicate their native language, in an attempt to get rid of any nationalistic notions they might hold, something that failed miserably as we know with the fall of communism, and the re emergence of those countries.

 

[TLOC]

Good almost midnight. A good day in the train room both weathering and layout work.

On the bench. the biomass building for the paper mill. Not sure what the color will be but I do know it will not be blue. Recycled Evergreen styrene and 1/2” plywood for the internal support

I cleaned up in front of the Cold storage building. In the next few days the track will be installed to service the building

The ground has been added around the transload facility. It’s also been painted in preparation for the start of some ground cover. Also next to the backdrop facade warehouse are the concrete tilt up wall panels. At 110’ it is almost 1/2 the length of the big warehouse. The new access entrance to the transload facility has been concreted.

The biomas building will be on the paper mill property in the corner and there will be a steam pipe over to the recovery building. Not quite sure how that will occur over the actual 12’ length. I have to put back together the shipping and receiving building. I did seperate 4 docks that you can see left of that white trailer behind the 2 boxcars.

The prototype biomas and long conveyor from the Domtar mill in Rothschild, Wi from a Google Earth screenshot tonight. It’s the yellowish building. You can see the conveyor on the left going up from the biomas storage to the top of the building. The blue steam pipes come out and use the building in front as support. It runs about 1/2 mile further to the right in the picture. The yellow pipes on the building arenot steam but I am not sure what they are.

 

[chadbag]

Ok, let me re phrase it. Russia forced every non Russian to learn Russian, and tried to eradicate their native language, in an attempt to get rid of any nationalistic notions they might hold, something that failed miserably as we know with the fall of communism, and the re emergence of those countries.

Yes.

The forced relocations of peoples was part of that as well. Moved different peoples out of their lands and moved Russians in. Ukraine, Baltics, Central Asian republics, Georgia, Soviet Armenia, etc.

Should also note that Russia alone was not the only country to do this. Poland ruled parts of Ukraine, Lithuania, Byelorussia / Belarus, and outlawed or at least highly discouraged the use of the native languages of those people and encouraged or perhaps forced Polish to be the language of the state in those areas. https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/Western-Ukraine-under-Polish-rule

Of course, now, Poland is one of the biggest supporters of Ukraine and their past is just that, their past.

 

[Smudge617]

Yes.

The forced relocations of peoples was part of that as well. Moved different peoples out of their lands and moved Russians in. Ukraine, Baltics, Central Asian republics, Georgia, Soviet Armenia, etc.

Should also note that Russia alone was not the only country to do this. Poland ruled parts of Ukraine, Lithuania, Byelorussia / Belarus, and outlawed or at least highly discouraged the use of the native languages of those people and encouraged or perhaps forced Polish to be the language of the state in those areas. https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/Western-Ukraine-under-Polish-rule

Of course, now, Poland is one of the biggest supporters of Ukraine and their past is just that, their past.

I think Poland like, Estonia Latvia and other Baltic countries see the potential threat Russia now poses in an attempt to re establish it's dominance (by force if necessary) in the area, hence the overwhelming support Ukraine is receiving.

But now I believe we're straying into the area of politics, and probably boring the pants of the other members too

 

[ctclibby]

5 Years, 4 months for me!

23ish days for me!

 

[ctclibby]

You don't have to wait that long. You just can't claim full sociable security pay until 67! You can still get Medicare at 65. I didn't wait, my circumstances allowed me to retire at 63. Never looked over my shoulder afterward.

I got full SSA, although the wife decided to start early at 65. Difference was $20 a month and figured what the heck. Neither of us is on Medicare as the VA told us not to even attempt it.

 

[ctclibby]

Good Morning All!
57F and partly in Libby.
62F and dark where ever I'ma at in TN. I40 mm126 North Forty TS.
Got to thinking about SSA a few months back and wondered if I could boost my payout amount because I have been working after I applied. In our case we have made more money in the last 5 years than any before. Called the Kalispell office and the SSA guy told me that it was automatic ( sorta ) as your income is revaluated monthly. The sorta part is that sometimes they need to force it to get the new amount. Wife's was spot on, mine went up $65 after the forcing. So, for those of you collecting and still working it might behoove you to give them a call and check.

Later

 

[OBTC 1909]

Good morning all. Cloudy and 56 heading for sunny and 75. Should be a beautiful day. Nothing going on here except work-eat-sleep-repeat. Hope you all have a great day.

 

[troyphoto]

Well, howdy there internet peeps. It's Troy again.

Freshly vaxxed! Whoot. Found out that all the boosters in the US are now the Omicron variant ones. Had a mild fever and sore arm within a minute of the injection. Sat in the store for 15 minutes just to make sure I wasn't having anything weird happen.

Other than a bit of lethargy, that's been the worst of it for me. Arm is sore, still.

Wife is trapped in the podcasts that use poly-tics to question the efficacy of the jabs. Pity, because that's her field. Medical Lab work. Specifically working in Immunology for 20ish years. She seems to have gotten it in her head that because the jab isn't 100% effective 100% of the time, it's not working right. Then she quotes to me one of the docs I've sent her to investigate. Seems like he gets soundbites played on her pods, but rarely do they give the full quote where he explains that the jab is to protect vs Serious Disease.

That's why, last Nov, I came home from my author con (1500 of my closest friends in one place) in Vegas, had a day of sniffles, sore throat, and fever. The next, I was fine. But other attendees were getting mild to moderate cases of the cooff.

Vax works differently in everyone - it trains your body to fight. After that, it's up to your T and B cells. My immune system seems to be a plane load of SpecOps ready to lay out some whooparse. Others, they get the busload of file clerks and carpool mechanics. Gets the job done, just takes longer, and leaves more of messy paper trail.

Didn't make the Costco run yet. Hopefully, that's on the agenda for today.

Or, I may take a nap. IIRC Todays the day of Blahs from the shot. Maybe I'll do a resin pour for some of miniature ponds with skeletons in them. Who knows?

OK... back to reading the interwebz

 

[Patrick]

Morning all,

Was on a bit earlier, but didn't get a chance to post before heading to the office. Hopefully today is less crazy. Senior tech is back from vacation today, so life SHOULD be better. Gotta run server updates, so I'll be working Saturday instead of Friday this week. I get a couple hours of OT this way. We have a holiday bank which you fill if you work on a holiday and a comp time bank, which fills when you get OT. You can max these at 40 hours and both of mine are, along with my current stash of 140 hours of vacation time, so I have time, I just don't use it. I'll get paid for the comp and holiday time when I leave 120 hours of the vacation time. I guess I should take some real time off someday. But hanging on to 5 weeks when I leave makes a nice check...

Terry: Thanks for the earworm. Now I have that and the Oscar Meyer Weiner song dancing in my head. Although I don'[t recall seeing either product in my local stores in quite a long time.


BBL

 

[D&J RailRoad]

Way back when I was 62 I applied for survivor benefits SS from my late wife's account, I had to go into the local SS office to apply. I told the woman what I wanted to do, draw off my late wife's account, not mine. She prepared the document and gave it to me to sign. Reading over it, I saw that she had it set up to draw from my account instead which would have left me restricted to a small amount that could not be changed after that. I pointed it out to her, and she told me I wasn't eligible to draw from my late wife's account. Whhhhhhaaaaaaaatttt? I told her, no way. I've been reading in the SSA documentation that I can do that. She says, your income puts you above the eligible level so you can only draw on your own account. I want to see your manager. She says, she's only going to tell you the same thing. I told her, bring her anyway. She goes away for about 20 minutes then comes back with another woman who then says to me, what seems to be the problem here? First off, I don't "seem" to be having a mental issue here. Second, I'm applying for SS based off my late wife's SS account and this woman is telling me I'm not eligible because of my current income level. She's reading my application then looks at the computer screen. Screws her face for a moment then in an almost resigning tone tells the other woman to process the claim then goes away. The first woman sits back down, does some typing on the computer then prints out a paper for me to sign. I look at it and see she still has it setup to draw from my SS account. I point it out to her and she gets real huffy then goes back to the computer to type some more. I interrupted her and asked, did I do something that offended you? She started to say, you don't...... then kind of caught herself and finished typing the application and printed it out. I looked over this copy and it was finally correct, and I signed it.
I don't know what she was tryin to pull, but the SSA documentation is quite clear on who can draw SS benefits.

 

[TLOC]

Good morning everyone, including the linguists! The sun, missing for 4 days now, has re-appeared. Not getting out of the 50’s the last 3 days the predicted high of 76 will be nice.

Activities today will be train room, out to lunch with the wife and my sister and then home for more train room. 4 of my sister’s neighbors are coming up for 7pm dinner that will be served inside the house. They are staying overnight here

enjoy the day

 

[D&J RailRoad]

The rail strike is looming for Friday. Amtrak has announced the cut back in long haul trains, i.e. Southwest Chief, Empire Builder, California Zephyr and some of the Texas Eagle. The article didn't say when the cancelation would go into effect but I suppose it would be before Friday, so passengers aren't stranded. Also, they don't want to have passenger trains sitting on the rails away from storage tracks.

I don't know if we should stand in solidarity with the rail service and not run the model trains until this contract stuff is settled.

 

[logandsawman]

Good morning, 43° and sunny.

I caught up on the Ukraine back and forth, found it quite interesting, by the way my great grandmother/grandfathers on Moms side came from Poland, Grandma spoke polish, they would speak it when I was a child.

I did absolutely nothing with the train over the weekend, had a construction project on the carport, prep work for pouring concrete (mostly shovelling and levelling) and bought some boards for the forms, will be pouring in the near future.

TomO: The paper mill/biomass storage is really something!! You really made a lot of headway also everything looks GREAT. Nice job!

Social Security: For each year I wait, I will get an additional approximately $100 per month. Makes it complicated on when to collect.

Here is my archive photo for today, the maintenance shed is a busted up thing I salvaged. This was all transition era and much of what you see in this pic has been sold. I enjoy looking at the pics, though:

This is my best transition area for going into the backdrop. Sure looks like out west to me.

Back later, Dave

 

[troyphoto]

Howdy again... I spoke too soon on the Coof Vax

It's got my T and B cells ramped waaaaay up.

Today is going to be a lot of napping.