Running Bear's October 2022 Coffee Shop

[ctclibby]

Good Morning All!
35F and raining.

Up to about 50F yesterday. Got a lot done yesterday, some inside, some out. Didn't feel that way until I started thinking about exactly what I did yesterday this am. Weather guessers say 48F about 1700 with rain around 1400. We will see.

Tips: I usually leave 15%; more or less depending on server's attitude. I try to always carry cash just for that which makes it the receiver's choice to tell the .gov. Kentucky, Tennessee and Alabama take ALL the tip money and split it with the crew. Restaurant has the tax duty then. If I remember correctly, all restaurant/bar workers are not paid a wage in those three states. They live on the tip money. In a busy place ( Logan's, Texas Roadhouse, Cattleman's .... etc), I can see them doing ok. Some of the smaller places on the other hand - who knows. Cattleman's in Shepardsville ( S. of Louisville ) has probably 25 workers doing stuff. They are busy from when they open at 11a to close at 10p. In 11 hours how many meals get ordered? I suspect that is more than my guess of upwards of 300 . So if 300 and the tips average out to $10, that would be $3,000 in tips split 25 ways - $120 each worker; $840 a week, more than $43K a year. That assumes they are working 7 days a week by choice. Overtime does not come into play as they are not paid wages or 'on the clock'. I suspect that the meal count is higher, and the tip average is lower, but you get the idea.

Is it fair? Beats me. If it was not working, there would be nobody working in restaurants.

Finishing up on the 2nd server as Ziply is supposed to give us a fiber connection today. If I don't get the server done, will set up a desktop in the dinning room to make sure it all works. Wind blowing right now, so inside stuff for now.

Later

 

[Bruette]

Well, I'm sure your--no...yer...no.............you are...not as think as I big you are. Err...think as you big you...oh never mind.

FYI I'm 6'8" 265lbs.

 

[chadbag]

Not so keen on the extra brown sugar tho'

They're not super sweet in my experience. I like Bush's and we have these sometimes. My favorite are the Boston Baked Beans (Bush's), which supposedly are made with molasses instead of sugar (traditionally that is how they are made).

Beans wouldn't be bad for breakfast, actually, though that is not normally how we in the US eat them. The problem with the full English Breakfast is that even for gluttons it is a ton of food to eat. Just hard to get it all in.

 

[logandsawman]

Fun story about tipping.

During High School, our oldest daughter worked as a server at a local breakfast place. There was this one older gentleman who came in every morning for breakfast. He always tipped right around 20%, according to my daughter. Right before Christmas, he picked out a few of the servers who he had come to know, and gave each of them a $100 bill when he paid his bill. This Gentleman went out of his way to tell the owners that "this isn't a tip I'm giving. This is a gift, that is from me to them. This is not a tip based on performance, or anything else, just me wanting to give a christmas present to these kids. According to the tax laws, gifts are not taxable, and should not be included anywhere on these kid's W-2."

I thought that was pretty cool thing for him to do.

I looked up the gift thing a few years ago when Mom gave us all money before she passed away. In my understanding, at that time, gifts under $10,000 are not taxable.

Above that amount, it appeared as though the gifter was responsible for any taxes. My feeling was that it wasn't something that the IRS was going to go after.

 

[chadbag]

You are completely wrong. According to the IRS tax code, tips are considered taxable income, and tipped employees are expected to disclose that income. The restaurant is also expected to report that income to the IRS.
What a wonderful (taxable) world we live in...

what happens and what is supposed to happen are two different things. Yes, tipped workers are supposed to declare the tips. And the IRS can audit if they think the amounts are off for that sort of job... But still, I would assume a great number of cash tips disappear.

Note to government: I am not condoning that sort of action or passing any sort of judgement on it.

 

[MilwRoader_Steve]

Fun story about tipping.

During High School, our oldest daughter worked as a server at a local breakfast place. There was this one older gentleman who came in every morning for breakfast. He always tipped right around 20%, according to my daughter. Right before Christmas, he picked out a few of the servers who he had come to know, and gave each of them a $100 bill when he paid his bill. This Gentleman went out of his way to tell the owners that "this isn't a tip I'm giving. This is a gift, that is from me to them. This is not a tip based on performance, or anything else, just me wanting to give a christmas present to these kids. According to the tax laws, gifts are not taxable, and should not be included anywhere on these kid's W-2."

I thought that was pretty cool thing for him to do.

Au contraire. I imagine the rules are the same for servers as for clergy and cash gifts ARE income and taxable. As are gift cards. I am required to keep track of and report all cash gifts or honorariums. Required, of course, being the operative. I'm sure those 'kids' did not report the 'gift' and were just fine, but technically, legally, they were supposed to do so.

Which is why years ago I began suggesting (especially for funerals and weddings) gifts-in-kind, preferably single-malt scotch. Say a nice family wishes to reward me for service at a delicate time with a gift. Let's say they are very generous and want me to have $100 to take me and my wife to dinner. Well, they need to give almost $200, because between Uncle Joe and Governor Tim-Jong-Walz, they get just shy of 48%. And of course, please remember that the money the nice people wish to share has most likely, almost certainly, already been taxed!

I'm not saying those nice servers should go to jail or get audited; but clarity and knowledge are a think, you know.

Sorry, back to John Wayne - - good think we had him or we'd all be speaking Japanese right now!

 

[MilwRoader_Steve]

Sorry, back to John Wayne - - good think we had him or we'd all be speaking Japanese right now!

APologies to all, and moderators please delete. That was a terribly ethno-centric and rascist thing to say and some of you are perhaps triggered by that. I am ill and will attempt to do better in future.

 

[Snowman]

FYI I'm 6'8" 265lbs.

...............................you think.......................

 

[Bruette]

...............................you think.......................

As long as I can stand up straight and I have not lost more weight.

 

[chadbag]

He was head of some restaurants association big lobbying group that negotiated with other lobbyists and Congress back in the 1990s??? Maybe 2000s???? The other minimum wages at the federal level were decoupled from the restaurant wait staff. The Fed levels are the lowest any state or local can set its own minimum wages.

Waitresses and other tipped restaurant folks have had a lower minimum wage than the "standard" minimum wage a lot longer than 1991. What did change is that this "tipped personnel" wage was de-coupled from the other standard minimum wage so that if the normal standard minimum wage was raised, that did not automatically cause a rise in the restaurant minimum wage.

--

speaking of tips: I dislike the auto added tips that some restaurants do and if they are there that is all that is given. I am usually more generous when left to my own calculating... BTW: I am pretty sure you have the legal right to remove those auto added tips from the bill if you want. A tip cannot be charged to you.

I've only ever once been tempted to lower a tip based on service. I was with my mother, grandmother, wife, sister in law, and maybe a niece or someone at a restaurant in Vermont for lunch. We ordered, amongst other things, a big shared Nacho tray. Some people didn't like guacamole so I asked for that to be put on the side. The server informed me they couldn't do that as they were busy. I reminded them that tips were voluntary and there wouldn't be one if such a simple request were refused.

The guacamole came in a separate plastic throw away cup and the guy got the minimum 15% instead of my normal higher.

 

[chadbag]

Au contraire. I imagine the rules are the same for servers as for clergy and cash gifts ARE income and taxable. As are gift cards. I am required to keep track of and report all cash gifts or honorariums. Required, of course, being the operative. I'm sure those 'kids' did not report the 'gift' and were just fine, but technically, legally, they were supposed to do so.

I think the difference is "gift in lieu of payment for service" and a "gift" of friendship. I don't know the proper term but there is a $10k limit or something like that for actual gifts but trying to use gifts to avoid paying salary or as part of employment is considered normal income.

disclaimer: not a lawyer

 

[Alcomotive]

Those suggested tip things are normal around here. I thought you meant where the tip is put on the bill before it gets to me as a seperate line item. That’s what I am opposed to.

I am getting to the point though that we might go back to tipping in cash, especially since the dinners are no longer deductions for us. No taxes for the server too.

The feed the meter yourself are big in the Madison area. They put the items on then swing the machine around and it says is this total correct and then the suggested tip shows up. Let’s see person behind the counter turned around grabbed a loaded already wrapped hot dog and a Diet Dr Pepper that will cost me $11.00. The dog is lukewarm and the the soda is warm and they want a tip! Those I say no to. Same at our bakery and coffee shops were you also self bus your table and pick up your own silver/plastic ware.

I always tip cash....I always zero out the tip on the receipt...cash only. I snap shoot my "merchant" copy so there is no funny business. It's a habit I developed early on. I also tell the server that I am leaving them cash or give it to them directly before leaving. I am generous too if they do great job. Sub par not so much.

 

[Snowman]

As long as I can stand up straight and I have not lost more weight.

And I thought I had "what layout height problems."

 

[Boris]

That was a terribly ethno-centric and rascist thing to say and some of you are perhaps triggered

Steve:
The world has certainly changed since your quoted comment was made.That was indeed a common statement during WW2 and for a decade after, due to the Japanese initiated war of 1941-1945. In short, that was then and this now...Being addressed as "Yo Polak", or "Hay Polish Boy:, was common once...they never heard of Lithuania....but thankfully,they don't do much of that any more either. Sometimes I'm just as guilty, because it's difficult to overcome the practices of the past, especially when aggrivated while watching the news, but we all suffer from the same tendencies.
Don't be too harsh with yourself.

 

[JeffH]

I looked up the gift thing a few years ago when Mom gave us all money before she passed away. In my understanding, at that time, gifts under $10,000 are not taxable.

Above that amount, it appeared as though the gifter was responsible for any taxes. My feeling was that it wasn't something that the IRS was going to go after.

Correct.. sort of.

State taxes and federal differ, but the baiscs of federal taxes and "gift tax" also sort of falls into the estate tax category.

You can "gift" up to $16,0000 per year to any individual without having to report it. Anything more than that, and the "gifter" must include that in a gift tax return that accumulates all teh "gifts" as part of the estate that gets taxed at death. The sum of all the gifts gets included in the estate, but usually it isn't taxed, as there is a fairly large exemption for the estate tax. Originally, it was a way to pass wealth along to children before you die, and have it all wrapped up in the final estate tax return.

 

[Boris]

And the IRS can audit if they think the amounts are off for that sort of job...

The IRS especially targeted restaurant staff, knowing they most likely can't afford to fight back...they don't want to go up against real fraud, because those people have high priced accountants and attorneys on retainer to fight the IRS.

 

[Snowman]

Yesterday's tragedy: A Par Five. I used to stand 6'4 1/2"...now 6' 3" but my arms are still just about as long: 38" vs. the 38 1/2" of yesteryear*

[* ask me why I can sew, and I will tell you--"Big and Tall" was a new retail store concept back then, and they still couldn't help me]

...and I could generate a lot of driver clubhead speed at times. I had it measured once at something like 124 mph, which left me pretty chuffed, considering the then PGA tour average was around 115.

My golf buddies and I always played the holes off the furthest back tees. Today this seventh hole cards at 605 (black) and 560 (blue). I don't recall there even being black tees at all, so I'll go with 560.

Anyway, not a difficult hole, provided you could clear the small creek which wandered short left and a bit longer on the right.

Back then it wasn't a factor. A 330* yard drive left a 3 wood of of around 250*, and there were many times I waited for them to clear the green so I could try to get on in two.

[*not as impressive as it sounds, as you have to take away 10% "for altitude" (this is one mile up--5350' or so).]

I didn't put it on the green in two very often, and I never even once carded an eagle, but I did card a few birdies there.

==================

Which brings me to yesterday's tragedy: I have just bought a new driver with a GREAT shaft--hit it crap** the first time I hit it, but loved it. Solid like solid rarely is.

So...now I'm playing the white tees, given my age. NO chance anymore to ever reach this green in two, so three is the plan.

I hemmed and hawed between my new seven wood (never yet played in anger out on the course--a virgin, as it were)...and this new driver. "Well, I didn't come here to play safe" so I take a mighty swing with the driver....top it...and hit it about 10 yards off the left. Next shot: The virgin seven wood, which clears the creek.

Now I'm using the new seven wood ("hey...100% success rate so far"...one for one) and it's in light rough, albeit down an inch or two. Another mighty swing...and I top it again, only this time it gouges a deep hole about twelve inches ahead--fortunately doesn't plug--but comes back up...and I've hit it all of 3' at best (now lying 3). It's sitting up again in the rough...so...and after another mighty swing...............................

..............and topped ball....................

I've popped it straight up and it rolled backwards about 18." Two serious attempts and swings for a total gain of something less that two feet. Now lying four....

"Well, eff this," so a five iron gets me...into a spot where I can crop off an overhanging limb on the NEXT shot (I do)....and after another lame attempt I finally put a pitching wedge onto the green. At which point I three putt.

A smooth eleven. Woohoo!

........................................................................................and I used to think carding a "Snowman"--an eight--was bad.

There's a joke somewhere in here about the evening news and (we'll have) "film at eleven." Oh I hope not...............

 

[JeffH]

Au contraire. I imagine the rules are the same for servers as for clergy and cash gifts ARE income and taxable. As are gift cards. I am required to keep track of and report all cash gifts or honorariums. Required, of course, being the operative. I'm sure those 'kids' did not report the 'gift' and were just fine, but technically, legally, they were supposed to do so.

But it was a gift, not a tip or any form of compensation... he made that clear. Gifts are not taxed to the recipient, they are taxed to the gifter, but there are large exemptions involved that get into complex federal tax regulations that, believe it or not, revolve around estate taxes.

You can gift up to $16,000 to any individual in 2022 and it is tax free to the recipient. The gifter is required to list gifts made each year. These gifts are then added into the estate value upon the gifter's death and taxed at that time. In reality, though, the lifetime exepmtion on the state tax is in the millions of dollars... so the vast majority of people have no need to report gifts and teh gifter cannot deduct teh gift on their taxes. The gift remains in the estate taxable value.

Any gifts below a certain threshold (I believe it's $15,000 now... used to be $10,000) are not required to be tracked on the gift tax returns..

As always, there are exception to the rules, and rules for the exceptions.

 

[Bruette]

APologies to all, and moderators please delete. That was a terribly ethno-centric and rascist thing to say and some of you are perhaps triggered by that. I am ill and will attempt to do better in future.

No need to worry, we all wear big boy pants in this forum.

To sum up what our esteemed friend Boris said, "times change". He said it better.

Besides, now the Japanese are among our most loyal allies. I look for "made in Japan" always quality stuff. If I had a dollar for every Sony (the one and only) product I have bought, we could go out for dinner and leave a good tip!

 

[Snowman]

Quite right, and times do change. As do cultures and the relationships between them. I was fortunate to spend timing helping a WWII vet* some twenty years back with his PC. He had real problems with our new, then, befriending relationship with Japan. "I saw what they did. I fought against it. Saw my friends lose their lives fighting against it too. Why should I have to?" To extend the olive branch or even accept an extended olive branch were it offered.

[*He piloted B-25 gunships and flew 45 attack missions against Japanese held islands in the Pacific. Shot down twice, IIRC]

And I couldn't refute him. From his point in time, and given the price he and his buddies...and his country...had paid during the war, I would have had no ground from which to do so. Even had I wanted to, which I didn't.

But my first truly serious girlfriend--that relationship also long gone under the bridge of time--had been Japanese (on both sides) too. As it happens she spoke Japanese at only the fourth grade level. She was otherwise about as American as a girl can get: Went to Hollywood High School, and one of her BFFs was Julie Nimoy (Mr. Spocks daughter).

===========

So times had changed by even then--Made in Japan was coming to be or already was a mark of quality. Not so expensive then as today...but times change.