Running Bear's August 2022 Coffee Shop

[santafewillie]

Please start teaching money management as a high school requirement to graduate. Jeez…

Please note that AOC has a degree in economics.

 

[santafewillie]

Everyone keeps drifting to the perspective of solar panels of break even point. The thing ya should be looking at is home energy costs and where it's going. Petroleum will end. That has been said many times and efforts to that end aren't just sorta maybe.
While most people ignore what's bein said by powers that be because they're above all that. Other's are payin attention. My neighbors are sayin, "when power goes out they'll come to my house, or when gas is gone they'll catch a ride with me." Sorry folks. You all should have been payin attention, now, get off my lawn.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but here in Texas, petroleum/gasoline/natural gas will be around for the next 50 years at least. That's longer than I expect me to be here. Since I do not plan on purchasing an EV, my electrical needs will not increase to the point of affordability or availability being part of the equation. I am expecting "greenness" to experience a temporary setback in a few years due to the infrastructure not being able to keep up in some parts of the country.
I do believe in green energy, but I don't believe that it should be forced on us as in a certain state. Texas, where I live, leads the nation in commercial wind generated energy, and is fourth in commercial solar power. Within ten miles of where I live there is a huge wind farm (18,000 acres) and two solar farms, existing alongside oil wells and natural gas wells. The NIMBY's are prevailing against wind turbines in many areas along the East Coast. Sad since they're the areas clamoring the most for green energy. That wind farm near me was completed two years before generating any power due to right of way issues to get transmission line permits (over pasture land) to the power grid corridor. There's now 53 large turbines spread out over that 18,000 acres that are able to operate year around if the wind blows.

Terry - If there are any comments considered political here, let me know and I will edit them out.

 

[TLOC]

Passing right on by the poly-tics posts...

Yep... right on past those. Will not engage.

In the meantime, what other e-vehicles are people purchasing. So far I'm not impressed by anything with a big T on it. Too many horror stories are coming out about those things.

Terry pre-ordered the Tesla Roadster. The son has 2- Tesla cyper trucks on order and it will be made about 2 miles from him in Austin and I have a Rivian pick up that is past due about 6 months already due to “supply“ issues. As soon as the truck shows up here I will sell my VW Jetta

 

[TLOC]

Please note that AOC has a degree in economics.

Like I said teach money management. Most economists to me know nothing about the real world. I would use her as an example of that

 

[bnsf971]

I know things are in a state of upheaval right now, but try to refrain from the politics in our posts.
We don't want Bob to poke his head in here, see all the politics, and clean house.
Do we?

 

[montanan]

Good morning. I figured that I would get in early. Got started posting over the past few days and never got to complete the post.

NATIONAL DOG DAY - I missed that yesterday. Was trying to send photos to the computer but the phone sends them in a HECI format, not JPEG. I really dislike this new phone. I am with AT&T and they sent a new phone for the 5G service saying that my old Samsung S8 wouldn't be good with 5G. I did finally download some photos of my girls. Molly on the left and Olivia on the right. They are my immediate family here and I am spending a lot of time with them.

Ken - It sounds like you are getting the hang of the Tesla. My friend's brother in law was able to make cross country trips with a lot of planning. Here in the mountains he did get some regenerative braking charging but with the screen showing where all of the Tesla quick charge stations are, they planned it so they would have a meal while they were on the quick charge. There are a few here in Montana, but not where I would need them as the few that are here are along the interstates. That's why I moved here, No universities, no airports and no interstates. My old truck, '49 Hudson and a couple of others I love. I can open the hood and work on them. I had to get an ECU for the '59 Impala because of the LS-3 engine.

Willie - A college degree doesn't mean that a person is smart. We had a guy on the ship that could answer any question at all about the missile fire control systems we had but he WAS NOT PERMITTED to work on them. He could screw them up in a heartbeat. AOC is a perfect example. Great photos by the way.

Terry - That '58 Fury is beautiful. I would take it over ANY new car on the market.

Scammers are a pain - You can hardly do anything today without someone trying to get into your wallet with some kind of scam. The idiots in India are a pain. They have the same music going on the phone when you are on hold for half a dozen scams. I should just hang up but will usually ask them how the weather is in India or ask them if they are in Mumbai or Kolkata. No sense of humor, they just hang up on me.

Got some things to do so I am going to cut it short.

Later

 

[chadbag]

Please note that AOC has a degree in economics.

I suspect one of those ones you send in a check for $25 and they return your degree by first class mail...

Either that or she passed through means other than academically.

 

[TLOC]

Everyone keeps drifting to the perspective of solar panels of break even point. The thing ya should be looking at is home energy costs and where it's going. Petroleum will end. That has been said many times and efforts to that end aren't just sorta maybe.
While most people ignore what's bein said by powers that be because they're above all that. Other's are payin attention. My neighbors are sayin, "when power goes out they'll come to my house, or when gas is gone they'll catch a ride with me." Sorry folks. You all should have been payin attention, now, get off my lawn.

Laughable that the neighbors say they will come over. Tell them, that’s why we have guns!

We are basically off grid except I was told here since we have fiber optic internet means we are still on the grid. We generate energy from wind with 3 towers, 2 geothermal wells and too many solar panels. It is stored in Powerwalls and works very well for the house and stables. When the mega packs are available to us we will add them. Now they are commercial use sales only. I will own a gasoline engine car or SUV as long as I live. While great for creating energy or storing energy for living I am very unsure about transportation. I do agree with Willie that a state that is already self-suffiencent in energy need not be at the whims of others or DC.

The thing that amazes me is the supposed cost start up of the solar farms in Wisconsin. 10 acres of panels for 25 million was online a few weeks ago. I have almost an acre of solar panels and it barely exceeded 6 figures. But I don’t have a CEO getting 10 million a year in salary plus bonus and other high end managers.

 

[chadbag]

Like I said teach money management. Most economists to me know nothing about the real world. I would use her as an example of that

Most economists don't know much about pure economics either.

 

[Boris]

Everyone keeps drifting to the perspective of solar panels of break even point. The thing ya should be looking at is home energy costs and where it's going. Petroleum will end. That has been said many times and efforts to that end aren't just sorta maybe.
While most people ignore what's bein said by powers that be because they're above all that. Other's are payin attention. My neighbors are sayin, "when power goes out they'll come to my house, or when gas is gone they'll catch a ride with me." Sorry folks. You all should have been payin attention, now, get off my lawn.

Ken: Not for nothing, if I was:
1. thirty years younger
2. Going to stay where I currently live.
I would be making the Solar investment, no question. Electric car? Not out of the question, but there are insufficient charging stations around here, and on my route(s) to visit my sons. Most likely by the time that gasoline is no longer sold, I will either have turned to dust, or stopped driving. Biggest draw back to E-cars is initial cost, followed by scarcity of charging stations. This all sounds good, but no one has completely thought this out. BTW, Troy, my preference would be an EF-150.

 

[chadbag]

The thing that amazes me is the supposed cost start up of the solar farms in Wisconsin. 10 acres of panels for 25 million was online a few weeks ago. I have almost an acre of solar panels and it barely exceeded 6 figures. But I don’t have a CEO getting 10 million a year in salary plus bonus and other high end managers.

The thing that amazes me is the "Green" advocates don't tell you the ecological cost and destruction of habitat/ecological damage that acres of solar panels do or 18000 acre wind farms. In Japan they are cutting down forests, chopping off the tops of mountains, etc to install huge solar farms, as they've, for some dumb reason, decided to follow the stupid Germans on the shutdown of nuclear facilities.

By-kill due to wind farms is a real issue for birds. All sorts of damage to the environment for industrial scale "alternatives".

I'm putting solar panels on the house, using a in-ground hydronic heat pump, and if I had the money and means, would put some wind power in. Some day I will be putting the energy storage )battery) system in but can't afford it right now with the increases in the house costs. I am not anti-alternative power -- at least on a personal level. All commercial buildings should install panels and theer are advantages to homes having them. But destroying the environment for commercial level makes no sense and does more damage than what they are trying to fix by doing it.

Just install new tech nuclear plants to eliminate the carbon boogie man. Densest, cheapest, and cleanest form of energy there is. In some countries the Green parties are embracing it. In others (looking at you Germany) they are fighting it tooth and nail (funded by Soviet and now Russian interests).

 

[truckdad]

Yes, but how much did the solar array cost you to begin with? I looked into that recently and realized that it would take me 33 years of no electric bill to make the payback! I am 70!

What he said. My neighbors bragg about their "no" cost electricity. I ask, how much did you pay to not pay?

 

[chadbag]

I've looked at the Volkswagen ID.4 and associated Audi EVs. I wish they sold the ID.3 (small hatchback) in the US. I'd drive an EV as a second car in our family and would convert the main car to PHEV if I had the money. Right now the second car is my Audi PHEV and the main family car is the powered VW.

I'd only charge at home and as a second car, that works fine since it is for around town, short trips, etc. I don't need an extensive charging network. For me the draw is the low cost per mile of operating. I've already saved thousands in gasoline costs driving my PHEV over the last 6 years for my around town trips.

PHEV for main family car works around town mostly EV, but you have the option to go long distances with easily available gasoline, and despite AOC and the others, gasoline is not going anywhere for a long time.

In fact I think gasoline will be replaced by Hydrogen -- either in fuel cell EV or in hydrogen combustion engines. Cummins has an industrial hydrogen engine coming out commerciall this decade and Mazda has been doing their rotary engine with hydrogen to great success in their labs. Long term that is where I'd put my money.

Battery based EVs are a short term solution that will eventually go away.

 

[ctclibby]

Good Afternoon All!
72F in Libby with partly
95F in Louisville with partly

We are getting on the solar bandwagon as it only makes sense; have been looking at it for a few years now, just have not jumped. Our electric bill has climbed the last 5 years or so to $150/Month. Wonder what the co-op is paying its top managers? Anyway, want to start small with a 24KW generator that is grid-tied but not activated - $8000 something for the products and electrician. I can not do the electrical since it is connected to the grid. Once all is installed, I then can play with my side of things. With the system we are looking at we probably will add enough battery so that they will hold the house up until the genset starts - guessing about 20 seconds, so not much for a battery bank.

For PV, we have one roof with a complete southern exposure that is about 25 x 40 to start with. Our thought is to add a row of PV which looks to be 5 or 6 panels and additional batteries as we can afford. Don't like the Lithium choice right now, looking at others: deep cycle marine is one. I do like the smaller inverters that can be used for each PV row - $150 vs a honker one at $2500 of which puts current back to the system. Another thing that falls out of the smaller inverters is that I can shut a row down for maintenance to deal with stuff instead of shutting down the whole 9 yards and covering all of the PV. Yes, maintenance either at night or cover that row with black material of some sort that does not pass IR and sunlight - probably plastic faced tar paper, plastic to protect the PV. You do need to clean and inspect PV every once in a while - right? When the garage gets built, then there is another roof with a southern exposure that can be used. The current design for garage would make that size about 25 by 36. Sure, any maintenance of stuff other than PV would require all of it to be disabled so power does not squeek by.

No, I don't really want to do this just to sell stuff back to the co-op as here you don't really sell it, you get credit on your bill. I suspect in time that will change but for now we will let the co-op take our excess when we have it. Probably be a couple of years for that to happen, so not worried about it just now.

Also going to put a timer on the water heater so it only comes on when we want it to, will wrap it more at that time too. Have heard we will drop 25 to 40% from our bill when we do that. Probably turn it on once in the early morning, then later on in the evening. I like morning shower, she does a bath at night. Dishwasher heats its own water so that is not an issue. Our house roof has a western exposure so everything from noon on will get sun. Looking at circulating water on it to preheat the HW tank. Need to look into this further.

Over the last 2 or so years, I have been replacing any light bulb that is not LED. They seem to be working OkieDokie and only have lost 2 of them ( out about 40 so far ) to infant mortality. With kids in the house, no matter what you do there is no way you can get them to turn lights off. So, got some of those that motion sense - has been great, now we walk through the house and WE do not turn off ( or on ) lights. Something that has fallen out of that is the kids now turn off lights - if they don't remember, the dang things come on when they roll over in bed and that wakes them up!

The end result? Its only money .... right? We know that our RoI will never come back as long as we are alive although all of the above increases the value of the property. Living in Libby, guess what? We have power outages multiple times a year. Most are the 15 min type, sometimes a couple of hours. Longest I remember was a couple of years ago - two days of not flushing toilets or just gazing in the refers/freezers for a snack. Lucky it was summer as you could stand outside and get a rain shower; at least ya smelled better. We have a wood cook stove and used that early in the am to cook for the day. Funny how eating patterns change when sh.t happens! Internet stays up as both Ziply and MtSky ( cable ) are battery and genset backed up so at least we can surf in the dark.

 

[Boris]

Most economists don't know much about pure economics either.

Chad: Most economists have never left the academic environment from the day they entered Kindergarten. All theory, little substance. After all it is a science. Money management, is not economics. It's practical day to day knowledge. The only challenge here, is finding educators sufficiently versed in money management to be able to teach it.

 

[chadbag]

One of my interests in PV and the heat pump is that when I am old and decrepit, I want to avoid having large utility bills I can't afford. Even if it takes my lifetime to break even, I have the money now and won't have it when retired.

Same with using ICF and air tight house (with mechanical ventilation). Energy retention. Enery is just going to get more expensive.

 

[chadbag]

Chad: Most economists have never left the academic environment from the day they entered Kindergarten. All theory, little substance. After all it is a science. Money management, is not economics. It's practical day to day knowledge. The only challenge here, is finding educators sufficiently versed in money management to be able to teach it.

Amen, brother.

And it is not just economics academics. Most academics I know live in a bubble where the real world doesn't matter and it bleeds over into their non academic lives and how they act and *vote*, unfortunately. (I have some academics in our family)

 

[chadbag]

I do have to say, my son had to do a money management class in HS. I don't think it was enough but it is a state requirement now and he came to me with lots of questions on what he was learning and how it really worked. I did not have to do the same when I was in HS long ago.

The good thing is that if your parents did a good job, you'll probably be better at it than your peers, even if you don't do as well as they did, and even if you rebel against them at first. You pick up certain behaviors and stuff from your parents without realizing it.

 

[chadbag]

What he said. My neighbors bragg about their "no" cost electricity. I ask, how much did you pay to not pay?

Factor in increased future costs of energy. Buying a PV system today, in today's dollars, means that in the future you are paying it back (if you did one of those dumb finance plans) in tomorrow's inflated dollars, and in any case you are protecting yourself against future costs of energy.

If your electricty cost today is 15 cents/kwh, will it always be that? In 10 or 15 years? In 25 years? Most likely not.

Yes, PV systems don't last forever but the calculation is a bit more complicated and relies on a few more unknowns than we think... The biggest being the future costs of energy and how the system will change.

 

[santafewillie]

I do have to say, my son had to do a money management class in HS. I don't think it was enough but it is a state requirement now and he came to me with lots of questions on what he was learning and how it really worked. I did not have to do the same when I was in HS long ago.

The good thing is that if your parents did a good job, you'll probably be better at it than your peers, even if you don't do as well as they did, and even if you rebel against them at first. You pick up certain behaviors and stuff from your parents without realizing it.

Chad - While our kids were still at home, my wife and I discussed our finances and money management at the dinner table. Even if they were not part of the discussion, they learned. All three do well with their finances today. And guess what? None of them has ever needed a handout from us. Of course this was at a time when having dinner together was beginning to go out of style, but I have always been a traditionalist towards those types of things.