Remove decoder to run DC

[drolmaeye]

Is it possible/feasible to remove the DCC decoder from a Bachmann DCC On Board product

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Bachmann-HO-RS3-CN-DCC-p/bac-64207.htm

and run it using DC?

If so, do I need to buy a blank or jumper plug (or anything else) to replace the decoder?

I currently have zero locomotives of any kind so apologies if I am asking an obvious question.

In case someone is baffled as to why I would bother, I want to have DCC on my soon-to-be-started-and-finished switching layout, but in the beginning I could run DC and my son could use this locomotive before (and of course, after) I get the DCC system. Otherwise, I'll just get a DC locomotive for him and install a decoder when I switch over.

 

[MudbugnTX]

Most new DCC locos will run on DC also. Check the manual to see if the decoder is auto switching.

 

[Railrunner130]

I can't speak on that particular product, but over the summer I removed a decoder from a nice brass engine. I had to buy a few tools to open it with, but that's another story. It took me about four hours because I have fat fingers and a tiny area to work inside. In the end, it was well worth it.

 

[rodney mcgiveron]

G'day....As on old Bachmann user from way back , both analog and DCC,...No need to remove the decoder.,it'll run fine analog with the decoder still installed..Bachmann locos are great value for money , so is their rolling stock..track is good except for some of their electric points..can be dodgy...Spectrum locos the best and silver series rolling stock is nicely made and affordable..Cheers Rod..

 

[dinwitty]

most DCC ready engines have the DCC socket with a DC plug that is removed for a decoder insertion, the DC plug "short circuits" the DC power to the motor/lights/what have you, generally the socket base has circuitry to correctly handle the headlights. I am not sure these DCC onboard engines come with a replaceable DC plug, but ask your hobbyshop for these DC plugs if you want to DC-ize your engine. The differrence for DC vs DCC is a DCC engine will not start at the same voltage as a DC engine. If you try to match a DC and DCC engine together they will not match speeds. A simple one engine layout not connecting to other engines you wont have issues. Again most DCC engines can run DC (but theres a feature that can disable it running DC) If you want to save the decoder from erratic and possible damage remove it till your ready to go back DCC on the engine.

 

[tootnkumin]

In the "Features" description (2nd line), it says, Dual mode NMRA compliant decoder. This means it can run on both DC and DCC layouts. Even the sound equipped types will also but in those cases it's best to make sure you have a modern Powerpack and controller. Tsunami Dual mode DCC/sound equipped will not tolerate the old style rheostat slide or rotary knob type DC controllers.

So, why not go DCC right from the word go and put the money you'll spend on a good DC controller towards it. I'll bet your son will pick it up just as quickly (and enjoy it more) 'cause 1 loco leads to 2 and 2 leads to 3 etc etc..............................

 

[Mark R.]

Personally, I would buy a non-decodered engine if you are talking Bachmann without sound. Their non-sound decoders aren't all that great. I replaced all my Bachmann decoders with TCS versions for about $20 each and the difference in how they ran was much improved. I'm almost willing to bet the price difference between the same engine with or without a factory decoder is more than $20. So by installing a better decoder yourself, you're not only saving money, you're also going to have a better running engine !

Mark.

 

[drolmaeye]

Thanks, all, for the good information. From the various responses it's clear I have several straightforward options.

Tootnkumin, I would like to go DCC from the get-go (and probably will), but I am dealing with the issue of the initial start-up costs. Money isn't really an issue if I move forward with moderation, but if I go too crazy too soon it definitely gets the wife's attention and may be detrimental to my operating funds in the long term.

 

[tootnkumin]

Tootnkumin, I would like to go DCC from the get-go (and probably will), but I am dealing with the issue of the initial start-up costs. Money isn't really an issue if I move forward with moderation, but if I go too crazy too soon it definitely gets the wife's attention and may be detrimental to my operating funds in the long term.

I know the feeling. My commiserations.

 

[dinwitty]

I'm asking myself the question about older Rheostat throttles as mentioned above, DCC uses AC signal, this powers the decoder and sends the signals for control. I havent tested raw DC yet on a DCC engine, raw DC would have regular halfwave AC pulses, or waves actually. The issue is if the decoder has enough capacitive oomfph to keep it alive and not fiddle with its components. If the DC is filtered to smooth the DC voltage out will probably help. You can't tell smooth/pulses without an oscilloscope, but testing the DC pack with a speaker can tell if it buzzez, hums, or no sound or low buzz will say how friendly it can be to a dcc decoder. I bought the EZ DCC from bachmann but I don't think you can program with it, but usually you can take your engine to the hobbyshop to change addresses, EZ DCC is limited to 10 addresses. DCC adds better motor control and even for a small switching layout coupling speed improves, my huge BLI Y6b crawls. Sound really adds to the effect. You really have to get a programmable system when and if you get there. Buying a DCC system is however generally a one time investment you won't spend again for quite a while. Sound decoders can be pricey, but Digitrax has a basic decoder riding around 40 bucks with steam/diesel and its programmable to change the sounds, just download projects from their site.

 

[Greg@mnrr]

Hi:

I think a general opinion is yes many DCC loco's will run on DC, but at what eventual cost? I know when I seen DCC run on DC there are strange noises and the performance is not the best.

My 2 cents worth.

Thanks.

Greg

 

[tootnkumin]

Hi:

I think a general opinion is yes many DCC loco's will run on DC, but at what eventual cost? I know when I seen DCC run on DC there are strange noises and the performance is not the best.

My 2 cents worth.

Thanks.

Greg

It was probably a Tsunami and a rheostat controller. Doesn't seem to worry my BLI's, either Blueline or Paragon2. The MRC/sound decoders in the earlier Genesis also seem OK with it. Both of the MTH SD70ACe's ran OK. My Tsunami equipped locos run fine on the club DC layout 'cause it's cab control where the track power is remotely controlled by the cabs (potentiometer cabs).

 

[dinwitty]

I looked at the Bachmann site for the RS3, looked at their pdf manual, that didnt show me anything, so googled the decoder, came up with an ebay RS3 decoder which showed me a pic, which is what I needed. The engine has a base PC board, and on it is the usual 8 pin DCC plug. Its decoder is hooked to this. All you need is the DC plug, ask your hobbyshop who might deal with DCC and work on DCC, he might have these plugs hanging around. Or they might be orderable. All the plug does is shunt power across the proper wires so the engine gets direct DC and the headlights are correctly wired for DC. You might email Bachmann direct on these plugs. Otherwise the engine should run fine on a DC powerpak, it will use the DCC features of the decoder. Since its a plugin decoder if you wanted you could swap with a proper sound decoder. I have several of these Bachmann engines (Sharknose, etc) you've caught me to check them out sometime.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Some manufacturers have been including the jumper plug with the engine, even if it has a decoder. The ones I've seen from Bachmann are 2 pieces of metal, bend at a right angle that connects the 3 sockets on each end and middle to make the loco just DC.

I have forgotten which locos I've seen these with. But it would be safe to say today that most, if not all decoders are dual mode, and the engines will run with no problems on a modern DC powerpack.

 

[tootnkumin]

Some manufacturers have been including the jumper plug with the engine, even if it has a decoder. The ones I've seen from Bachmann are 2 pieces of metal, bend at a right angle that connects the 3 sockets on each end and middle to make the loco just DC.

I have forgotten which locos I've seen these with. But it would be safe to say today that most, if not all decoders are dual mode, and the engines will run with no problems on a modern DC powerpack.

My BLI Bluelines have that arrangement, two 3 pronged pieces of metal (even though they are already DC/sound) so, if you insert them , you can consist with other just DC locos, cuts out the start up sequence and drops the voltage required to get moving so they all match, but still retaining the running sounds.

 

[arealgijoe]

I bought a Digitrax Zpehyr Xtra console and it does everything I need, including programming DCC decoders. It has slots for upto 20 locos at a time and came complete with 3amp power supply. I started out intending on only doing DCC on a small part of my layout & only a few of my locos. Now I have converted about 100 locos to DCC and love it.

Some parts, such as my automated trolley line will remain DC, so will a small tight mountain oval. I do have a RDC line and an oval that I can switch between DC & DCC using double pole double throw (important to use break before make switches for this).

JD