Planning the layout....

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stearsmania

Member
Ok, I plan on starting a layout project in the next several months...I have no experience other than building a train table for my sons wooden track...so i want to know what you guys do when you start...for example, what kind of track do I need to buy, and from where? ebay? a dealer? etc... please give me as much detail as you think someone would need to know who has no clue about building a layout...another example would be where do i buy my scenery, trees, buildings, etc...just want to have some suggestions from some pros..every step you can think of, where you buy all supplies and materials needed, down to the smallest details....thanks!!!
 
Some of us hacker types charge less than pros for our help :p. Nothing wrong with pros though if you so choose. Have you decided on a scale yet like HO or N? I would do N so you can have longer more realistic length trains in a smaller space. Then get atlas code 80 track because it's super affordable and available. Don't pay much for track, locomotives, rail cars, power packs because it's all going for not much in this economy. About 50,000 N scale items for sale on ebay right now. M.B.Klein has some of the best prices on new track and everything if you want new stuff. You can find used dealers in N scale other than ebay if you look or PM me or look through my posts on the N scale section.

Adequate layout tables can be built with celotex soundboard and cheap 1" x 3" x 8' pine for not much money. But if money is no object you can always go deluxe.

I built this table support frame from 1" x 3" for less than $20 in lumber and screws. It is very solid. And used a 36" x 80" birch door for a platform....but next time will use celotex for only $9 for 4' x 8' sheet. Door was $24.
 
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I like ModelTrainStuff also called M.B. Klein in maryland. Yardsale Trains in colorado...Dave has used only N scale only....and ships same day if ordered in morning. A place called N-gauge-ing is another one man operation in west virginia....has very quick shipping....nice guy Patrick has some good deals.....N and HO. All these are online and can easily be found with google. I will probably try buying for first time from ebay soon.
 
Also how much space do you have available? Do you want DC or DCC (digital command control)? What era do you want to model (steam, transition era or diesel)? Are you wanting a loop with a siding or two or something bigger where you serve industries and have a loco service area?
 
I personally think n scale is too small especially for kids. You can have a decent size ho lauout if you do a little research before you start buying.

Yes you gotta help us out with what you have to work with, such as layout room size, how big of a layout you are thinking of having. What do you want your layout to do, run in circles or some switching mixed in?
 
at this time, i am about to move, so when i get a new place i will know the size and all of that..i'm more interested in the other details, what kind of track do you buy? what type of power supply do you use? where do you buy your trees/buildings/lights?

i plan on the layout being large, and id like to do some switching...but like i said, id like to know what track people recommend, where to buy it? etc...
 
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Can you narrow down your questions a little bit. There are millions of answers to your questions.

All track can be good for different reasons. Do you want High end scale look? Cheap? in the middle? What Scale?

The newest thing in trains is dcc but it cost more. How many trains will you be running? one or two or 10? A large layout can be designed work well with dc and save a ton of money.

Steve
 
If your just starting out and if this is ho scale. I would go code 100 atlas flex track its great stuff. Some say code 83 but its more money, code 100 will do you good.

Just check out a few good websites like modeltrainstuff.com they have countless items.

I prefer dcc with sound locos. Especially with kids, they will love it. Dcc wiring is easier especially for a new guy like you and I

You can find good dcc starter sets for around 160-200. Seems like alot but it gets you going with everything needed to run trains.

Some well proven systems to look into are nce power cab and digitrax zephyr
 
@choops i understand there are millions of answers, i just want to know how you guys go about starting your layout, where you shop, where you buy...
 


As for where to buy stuff, check this thread right here on this very forum:

Best Hobby Shops on the Web

It is a long thread with a lot of recommendations.

stearsmania said:
i just want to know how you guys go about starting your layout
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The first step in starting a layout is planning, not buying.

Buying stuff is actually the easy part. All it takes is money and a list of what you need. There are plenty of good vendors to choose from. See the thread above.

Figuring out what to buy is the hard part. That's where planning is important. It means having some idea of what you need for the layout you want to build.

Things to consider include what era you want to model. No point in buying modern diesel locomotives if you are modeling the 1940's.

Do you want to feature locomotives and rolling stock from a particular railroad or railroads? This will help determine the geographical setting for your railroad.

Or you can approach the other way around. Maybe you already know where your railroad will be located. If so, that may determine which railroad's equipment will be featured.

The type of track requires decisions, too. Do you want maximum realism or easiest setup, or something in between? Your answer will help determine which type and brands of track are best for you. There is no single answer that is best for everyone.

What part of model railroading most interests you? Some people like to operate a layout as realistically as possible. Others want to sit back and watch trains run through finely detailed scenery. Some enjoy the challenge of scratch-building each structure on their layout. Others purchase ready-made buildings but spend hours carefully detailing each locomotive.

Do you envision operating your railroad alone, or do you want a layout that will be operated by several people at the same time?

Are there some things that you absolutely must have on your layout? A turntable and roundhouse? A river? A large yard for making up trains? A coal mine? A farm? A city scene? Broad sweeping curves?

Make a list of these "must-haves" to guide your planning. These things are often referred to as the "givens" for your layout.

Make another list of things that you would like to have but aren't as important as the "givens." This secondary list is often called the "druthers."

With a list of "givens" and "druthers" you can start thinking about what is practical and impractical for you to accomplish. You can start to get an idea of how much space the layout will require and how much it is likely to cost. I think most model railroaders have faced the hard reality that there isn't space, time, or money to do it all.

Thinking about things like this should be your starting point for any layout, long before you worry about where to buy stuff.

- Jeff
 
A lot of the answers depend on where you want to go with it.

I would not buy a "train set". I would buy track and rolling stock separately.

For track, I prefer flex track to sectional track. the code is the rail size (height in thousandths of an inch). Code 100 is cheaper but looks less real. Code 83 is more realistic. Personally I would suggest Atlas code 83. Its commonly available and has a wide range of options. The easiest and cheapest way to cut flex track is with a pair of rail nippers or flush cutting pliers (Radio Shack).

Another good track manufacturer is Peco, but they are more expensive than Atlas.

On switches the number is how sharply the tracks diverge. A #4 switch the tracks diverge 1" for every 4" of run, a #6 switch diverges 1" for every 6" of run. You can buy electrically operated switches or those without a mechanism and add your own mechanism.

The radius and switch size you choose depends on the type of equipment you are running. If you are using 6 axle diesels and steamers I woul try to stay at 24" and above, if you have big steamers and 80-90 ft cars I would try to stay above 30". Steamers and 6 axles work best at #6 switches and above. #8 and above switches in most cases are cosmetic because they look nice.

Most of the engines now are pretty good. If you are going to e-bay and buying used or older stuff, check up on it first, some of the older stuff can be pretty rough.

Same with cars. Longer cars do better on larger radius. You will want knuckle couplers (Kadee, Accumate, etc.) If you buy older cars they will come with horn hook couplers and you will have to replace them (usually not a huge deal).
 
It also can't hurt if you do a google search on hobby shops/train stores in your area. When I started, I tended to buy 'mail order,' as it was cheaper, if I knew the stock numbers of what I was ordering.

I started in the hobby with sectional track. Today a couple of brands are of this sort, but include affixed roadbed as well.

Large is relative. For some its 10'x 12 feet, for others its 40'x25'. Many people started out with a layout of about 32 square feet(4'x8'). The most common radius of track that comes with the typical HO train set, is 18". 'Recently,' some manufacturers have identified it as being 38" in diameter. The old rule was from the center of the track, to the center of the circle, not outside of the ties to outside of the ties.

You asked about 'power supplies.' Generally these days, in HO, and N alike, you can do dc, or dcc. DC typically involves a 'powerpack/transformer,' and a bunch of wiring. DCC involves more than a 'powerpack/transformer,' as well as each locomotive being equiped with a decoder. The arguement is frequently made that you run fewer wires to the track with DCC, and the electrical controls are 'simpler,' but that can vary some, person to person. Do you have any understanding of electricity? How about diagnosing software, or hardware problems. These skills will help you if you go the DCC route. There are a number of firms that make DCC equipment. Same goes with dc. As far as DC goes, I stick to MRC transformers/powerpacks, as they've generally been reliabile for me over the years.

As to your question regarding 'how do you guys start a layout,' I'd say the vast majority of us would say, 'I have a couple of places in mind, in the real world, that I'd like to try and replicate, or represent in some way.' In HO scale 1 mile = 64 or so feet. (5280/87= 1 mile in HO scale). Because for most of us, even a small spot in the real world, like a junction, or town, would fill more than one basement, we 'selectively compress' the real world, by including only those features that interest us, and will give a model scene the 'flavor' of the real spot. Additionally, most modelers don't have the space on their layouts to run a 100 car train. In 4'x8', an engine and 10 cars could seem like a really long train. This is why some of us model 'branch lines,' not 'mainlines.'
Knowing what you want to model, also leads to the question about 'what period of time am I trying to represent?' Today? If you want to build something that your son has seen, or sees daily, you'll probably model 'today,' or be a 'contemporary modeler.' If we're doing the modeling for ourselves, many people choose to model some time period in the past(earlier in their lives, commonly), rather than today, for various reasons(smaller equipment, personal recollections, etc).

Assuming you were modeling today, somewhere you and your son have been, you might choose to model which ever industries, etc, are in that location, that interest you/him. this leads to questions like what kind of freight cars the industry receives, and ships, which give you an idea of what to buy. Also, what types of freight cars and engines go by, or service this location. Give you a better idea of what types of models to buy, if your money tree hasn't borne much fruit recently.
 
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Regarding DC versus DCC, if you are starting from scratch and do not yet own any locomotives or "power packs," then DCC makes the most sense to me. And I would contend that you need a lot more electrical knowledge to build a DC layout than you need to build a DCC layout.

Yes, the initial expenditure for the DCC unit will be greater than for a DC power pack. However, in the long run, the cost of the DCC unit will be a tiny fraction of the total cost of a layout. To me, the simplified wiring and operational flexibility that comes with DCC more than compensates for the higher initial cost.

If you only ever want to run one locomotive at a time, then the choice of DC is probably fine. But as soon as you want to run two locomotives at a time, or even have a second locomotive sitting on the tracks of your layout, the complexity of DC wiring jumps dramatically.

With DCC, the wiring is essentially the same whether you are running one loco or ten locos. Even if you only want to have a loco running on the main line while you operate a switcher in your yard, DCC makes the most sense in terms of simple wiring and ease of operation.

- Jeff
 
Yep this is all good advice. Just slow down, don't just go buying stuff. Do some research and figure out what you want.

For me as a newbie, well not counting the Tyco train sets I had as a kid. Just about 3 years ago I started my first real layout.

I didn't know anything. But I ended up with a pretty large layout for a newbie. Mine is 12' x 15', and now I'm building a 10' x 10' extension room.

I went with DCC. I have the NCE Power Pro wireless system, and it's great for beginners, it's easy to learn, and the throttle is user friendly.

For track. I went with Walthers flex track code 83. And for switches I chose to use Peco. They are very reliable and work great.

Other things you need to think about are.

Benchwork
Wiring
Layout/Track Planning.
 
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