Old School DC- blocks and 2 trains running at the same time- questions

[tc1961N]

This could get lengthy so please bear with me!

I'm 64 and I want to learn the wiring from the ground up, so I'm starting with DC.

I have approximately a 10x12 area built with a space inside to work so I can get to everything.

I won a huge pile of Tru Scale track, 50% new in packaging and roadbed and tons of switches, turnouts, etc in a Cabin Fever Auction a few months ago.

I have a fixation on old vintage stuff, so I wanted to use this.

I have 2 loops, one inside the other with 2 crossovers made completely out of Tru Scale NiSi Ready Track, already ballasted

I have various turnouts in places for future use for a yard, industries, stubs, etc.

I started out with the main line loop and I really had no plan, I was just building like it was a giant erector set and as I built, the plan developed.

Once I had my initial plan, I made a drawing so I could figure out where to add blocks.

I wanted to do this the old way, been reading Linn Westcott's How to wire your model railroad and the Atlas Complete wiring book and a few other resources.


I'm beginning to get the concept of blocks and my original main purpose was to have engines on the track that I could have sitting on sections of track that would not do anything till I turned them on. Then I learned I could run 2 trains at the same time with 2 cabs, blocks and switches.

I have the outside loop working (still need to create more blocks and add some feeds) with one cab and the inside loop working with another cab but not in a complete loop yet, I need to add more feeds and blocks.

So right now I have the outside loop where I can run a loco around the loop continuously and the inside loop I can run a loco in the opposite direction several feet before I lose power because I need more feeds.

I thought it was really cool to be able to do that.

I'm reading an article from January 1985 MR about 2 cab wiring and while it makes sense, I've never actually seen an example or video of anybody actually operating a layout this way.

As the trains move around the layout are they always stopping so you can throw the DPDT switches or are they moving slowly enough that they seem unaffected by the switching?

I will be operating this layout probably by myself mostly and I'm just curious to see how this works, am I going to be constantly throwing switches or am I going to be determining how I want the trains to operate, moving into yards or stubs or industries, dropping passengers and just moving slowly?

From what I have learned so far it seems like there could be a lot of starting and stopping, which is fine, I just want to know if that's the way it's supposed to be with this type of set up.

Can someone please advise or guide me or explain on how they do or did this?

Thanks for this forum!

Tony

 

[logandsawman]

Do whatever works for you. If that means copying a published methodology, fine.

I have a DC layout 8' x 40' , which is lots of room, but I find it too confusing to have two trains moving at the same time, so I have isolated spurs and sidings to park trains.

I just turn off one rail using a simple single pole switch and insulated rail joiners.

I did not read about it in a book, but from trial and error realized what works well for my type of operations.

As long as you are having fun, it is mission accomplished.

Dave LASM

 

[diesel]

You may be thinking of block wiring and cab wiring as the same thing, but no. They're independent and you can have one or the other, or both. If you are operating the layout by yourself, you probably won't need or use cab control. In that case, there are no switches (of the kind you describe) to throw.

If your aim is to run multiple trains on the same mainline DC tracks, you will need multiple electrical blocks, and/or power routing turnouts.

Many layouts now don't really have blocks, just one big block because of DCC. But a simple DC layout without signalling can also be wired as one big block, provided it's small enough that you don't have consecutive trains running on the same track. Sidings can be switched, and you normally wouldn't be going crazy flipping toggles, as you would only do that when you park a train there. A power routing turnout does that automatically for you, if the points on a siding are set to the main, the siding has no power. Setting the points to the siding, energizes the siding so the train can move.

If you don't like toggles, that would help you because your entire layout can function without a single toggle. There are a few odd exceptions where you absolutely need a toggle, like a reversing loop.

The exact type of solution depends somewhat on the kind of turnouts you use, insulated or powered frogs.

 

[timlange3]

To run two trains on the same tracks you need to have a minimum of three blocks to keep each train on its own power supply. The more blocks you have the closer you can run the trains. If you have one train following another, you will be busy switching power to the blocks. I suspect once you get them in separate loops you will leave them there so not to have be switching power to blocks all the time. DCC will eliminate the blocks, but you will still be busy managing the throttles if the trains are following each other.

 

[santafewillie]

From what you describe in your opening post, if you are running the two trains on separate loops, then you only need 2 actual blocks; one for the outer loop and one for the inner loop. You will still need two power supplies or transformers. Separate blocks can be wired in for sidings and spurs where you want to park trains. Other than off/on, no switching while running is needed. If there are crossovers involved, they will need insulated rail joiners in the middle. Look up Atlas Selectors and learn how to use them for more flexibility.
While I can run two trains on my DC layout, I have found that I can only pay attention to one at a time, so running two is senseless. I was in the past able to let my granddaughter run one train while I ran the other, but she has outgrown the urge to participate.

 

[diesel]

In practice, the train movements on a small layout as described, wouldn't really accommodate multiple trains on the same track. With the minimum three blocks, each train movement would be only be a few feet. That would get tiresome quickly. The description sounds instead like a double mainline, it doesn't have that problem.

The books you have cover much larger and more complex situations that you can ignore for now. BTW my favourite track and electronics books are the ones by Paul Mallery.

 

[RhB Michael]

I agree. Even on a larger layout such as mine, two passing siding would keep me continually busy with throwing turnouts and starting and stopping trains. That's not how I wanted to do it, so dual main lines.

 

[gasnbrass]

Even with two separate loops it would be a good idea to break up each loop into two blocks. That way you can move an entire train from one loop to the other. Park train 1 at the end of the block near the crossover, drive train 2 into the other half of the same loop, then flip the turnouts and drive train 1 onto the other loop. An honestly, real trains operate in "occupancy blocks" anyway so it's just replicating real life.

 

[trailrider]

My folded dogbone layout with an additional peninsula was originally DC, so I broke it up into a multitude of blocks. When I added DCC capability, I set up to select either type. I could run more than one train at a time. But, having difficulty walking and chewing gum simultaneously, I just run one at a time.

 

[KB02]

My original layout was essentially a double loop with crossovers on a 4'x8' platform. I set it up for block wiring with one transformer controlling the inner loop and a second controlling the outer. All the cross overs were controlled by DPDT switches that could set to either transformer. I could run multiple trains switching between loops, but it was a challenge trying to keep ahead of them and getting the toggles in the right position at the right time. A challenge, but a fun one. A quick throw of the toggle would keep a train moving but often I would have a locomotive approach the switch and stop so the "conductor" could "get out of the cab and throw the switch." At least that's my imaginary story and I'm sticking too it.

Most of my sidings were set on either simple on/off toggles or momentary switches. That way I could "park" a loco without having to worry. As I started to expend my layout I went with a third transformer controlling a third block; again with a cross over section controlled by a DPDT toggle.

 

[tc1961N]

Thanks for all the information guys I really appreciate it. Right now, simplified, it is a rectangular donut shaped layout, 2 main line loops one within the other with 2 crossovers all done with Tru Scale track. The inside loop has a crossover with a 3rd line running parallel to the inside loop to a ladder with 4 or 5 "rungs", still working on that. The first ladder turn out is a left, so the straight through is running and "will be" going to a turntable approach track and a track leaving the turntable going to the inside loop crossover making a 3rd inside loop. I have a few turnouts stubbed in various locations around the inside(second) and outside loop for future industries and train station, etc. I have a small collection of engines and I'd like to be able to park them and at any time run this one or that one. Figuring on getting any engine to any location within the loops with the right amount of switch throwing. I realize that if I ever do run more than one train, one will be circling and the other I will be playing with. I have to resist the urge to spaghetti bowl the layout, lol. I have another question about turnouts but that will be another post.

Thanks again!!!

Tony

 

[J.Albert]

OP:

My opinion only as to what follows (and you can ignore it if you wish)...

Since you're just starting, I think it would be easier to "go dcc".
With dcc, you don't really need "blocks" that you flip on/off with toggle switches.

With dcc, all the track is powered up all the time.
You control ENGINES individually - just like an engineer on a real railroad.

Do you have locomotives yet?
If they're newer, they may be "dcc ready" -- just drop in a decoder and go.

If you want to see how easy it can be to set up a dcc system, I recommend this video:
(and the DCC EX CSB1 hardware controller that is featured in it)