Newbie with layout reccomendations

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I'm glad you like the track plan! I'm so excited now, I went to home depot and got all my building supplies and starting tomorrow!!

About the over-under crossing, I will have 1" foam board over my plywood, so I could go lower grade down to the plywood. Would that give me enough room for the grade? The distance is 28" from the flat crossing to the bridge. Also, how high do I need to make the clearance be?
I really like that loop run with the over-under pass, I hope it works.

I didn't know about the crossings, why are they so expensive on real RR's?

I also have another area to expand, the lower-left extending back about 8ft, and I want to build out a mountain run there. My new railroad name is "The Mile-HI Railroad" so I must have a mountain run since I'm from Denver.

Again, I can't thank you guys enough for all the great feedback and guidance you've giving me!
 
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while the layout is obviously up to you. take a look at your weaving track near botom left corner. if instead 3 right hand turnouts 1 right followed by 2 left used you will have straight line with diverging storage spurs.
also, IMHO crawl into access hatches will get old quick...

before parting with cash, why not check your local craig list? at a times very nice stuff can be had for cheap, and sometimes even free.
if its dry there check the "as is" section in your local menards, home depot , lowes etc stores and make friends with the wood dept guy. how does 5$ per insulation foam and 15$ instead of 50$ for almost complete cabinet grade 3/4 plywood sounds?
this will leave you with more money for trains :)
 
From the looks of that plan. You may be able to get away with one of the access panels and not need the second one. Im thinking the one on the left would be more useful.
 


What I did with mine is get 1" insulation board (I have a small lake I'm putting in front of my depot, for a nice view when people get off the trains), and then get a 2" foam insulation board for my hills. I have a large 6" hill in one corner, and a 2" hill between my mainline, the big hill and the lumber company spur. Then in another corner, I have another 2" hill. From the looks of your track plan, it looks like you left yourself with lots of scenery options.
 
You need at least 3" clearance for a bridge to cross another track. To go from zero feet to 3" in 28" is over a 10% grade. That is not possible with steel on steel traction. You need to find a way to either extend the amount of run or cross the other track at grade and not on a bridge.

Railroads didn't use crossings for industrial spurs for two reasons. They are expensive to build, just like the model ones are more expensive to buy. The second issue was that both tracks needed to be protected at a grade crossing to avoid collisions. The meant things like towers, signals, or gates. They were all expensive to build and maintain. There was no industrial spur that was worth that kind of money. That's why I said to take the lumber spur off the mainline and not have it loop around the layout and cross two other tracks in the process. There are some serious issues with your layout. I really would delay the start of construction until you got them worked out.
 
All those concentric tracks paralleling the outer boundary of your bench/table is one of the no-no's we try to get newcomers away from. It seems intuitive that if you place a lot of tangent track parallel to the edges that you maximize your track placement in a confined space. What you end up with is a spaghetti bowl of essentially useless track.

You would be much further ahead to wean yourself off of the table concept. Instead, with the new room you have, devise another bench and eliminate the pop-up(s) to the extent possible. In fact, it would be super if you could forget the need/desire to run trains in loops altoghether. Real trains don't work that way. Every short line or spur operation runs back and forth. A luxury would be a turning wye or a turntable at one end. Or, use what the real railroads use...a runaround track to get the engine to the other end of the train to tow it back to the place of origin...even if it means tender first. Lots of operations ran engines tender first, the N&W being one of them.

You need space to store trains. Will you run passenger trains, even a mixed consist? There should be a substantial siding at the station for the passenger trains so that they don't block the main...which is/ought to be your outer loop. If you forget the loop as I suggest, then it becomes even more objectionable to block the main with a stopped passenger train unless you run to a timetable, and that means "operations"!

Just some thoughts. I began with a large slab table and had fun, but I was ready to move on 6 weeks after all that work. I salvaged almost nothing from that first attempt, except for my engines and rolling stock, some plastic structures, and one sheet of 5/8" ply that now forms the yard on my current layout.

We don't want you to get your fire doused...we just want to keep you learning and accepting that your cash is limited and the mistakes should be few. A boring circular bowl of spaghetti track seems more complicated than a simple oval under the Christmas tree, but after you have run the same train through the different turnouts, always going the same direction, you will get the 'Aha!", and an "Oh crap..." at the same moment in time. It is rarely a fully pleasant experience.

-Crandell
 
I thought I was close. I guess back to the drawing board!

I really want to have a passenger train on the outer most loop, that will have a bridge, a tunnel, and a passenger terminal. I'll re-configure that with a turn-out so it doesn't block the main line. I would prefer to have this running a continuous loop, while I work the operations of the freight trains.

I also have an area of expansion to extend the main-line passenger train on the lower left of the layout, of about 8'x4' that I want to later make a mountain run. And still if I want even more expansion, there is a room on the right side that I could make a cutout on the wall on the upper right of the layout, that could go along the back wall, into the room and come back out to the main line.

I'll make some modifications and report back. Thanks everyone!!!
 
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OK I've made some modifications, and now I have the passenger train to pull off the mail line when picking up and dropping off the people.

And now I have a couple places for a freight "run-around" track. And also have plenty of spots to maneuver the cars. The rail yard storage on the lower-left is a "pinwheel ladder".

HO14_new.jpg


btw, I'm basing this model on the (modern current) Denver Amtrak with a spur going from Denver Union Station to Glenwood Springs in the mountains. And for freight, the Denver Rio Grand Western RR. http://www.drgw.net/

Denver Union Station
6169442.jpg
 
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You still don't have enough space for a bridge over the middle track without an impossible grade. You still have an industrial spur with two cosssings across mainline tracks. You have what apears to be a double main line but it dead ends just before the Union Station, where you have a switch that enters this long, useless spur again. You have many tracks and switches that serve no industries, have no apparent purpose, or are taking the long way around to get to an industry you could serve with one switch off the main line, like the lumber mill. You have masses of track that take up almost entire surface of the layout, leaving no room for scenery.

The best advice I can give you is to start over. Have one oval of track and then design the switches so they reach industries with as short a run as possible. Forget bridges over other track, you don't have enough room. If you can't see a clear purpose for a track, don't put it in. It's your layout, so you can do as you wish. The only thing I can say now is that Atlas will love you and you'll hate this layout in a very short period of time.
 
OK well I thought it was better, I guess I'll start over... Can you help design this for me? I need some help, I'm getting frustrated. The main thing I want to keep is the passanger, and the flying cross-over. I'm going to have 1" foam, so I could go down grade 1" and only have a 2" high bridge.

Thanks...
 
Im not sure if you need to be a subscriber for this. But why not go through the 1000s of track plans on Model Railroaders website and see if you find something from there? Might give you a good idea for a start.

Im kind of going through and looking at track plans as well. But I have 23 years of Model Railroader magazines I could reference.
 
OK I just re-worked it again, much cleaner now! I sure hope you like it, because this is my final version. Every piece of track has a purpose. I appreciate all the help!!

Let me know what ya think now...

HO15_new.jpg
 
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Ok, I fiddled a bit - this is not perfect or even optimal but I think it might be better from an operational viewpoint. Just a starting suggestion - have at it, boys!

Of course, if you are truly locked into your final design, ignore this...
 
I think this plan is starting to take shape. I would consider some type of lift out/hinged section or maybe a swing gate that could ease the duck under issue. Speaking from experience, I thought I could live with a duck under, but quickly changed my mind and converted it to a lift out section. I am much happier!:)

A couple of other things to consider...

Eliminate some of the duplicate track. I think in this case less is more. Too much track and the railroad becomes too busy.

I would also add some type of staging tracks "off" of the layout that will act as a link to the rest of the world. It doesn't need to be elaborate, just a track or two to give trains somewhere to go and somewhere to come from. This may not seem significant now, but later on if you develop an operating scheme- staging is a must!

Scott Stephenson
Modeling the CB&Q Dragonfly Subdivision
 
Beachbum said:
Ok, I fiddled a bit - this is not perfect or even optimal but I think it might be better from an operational viewpoint. Just a starting suggestion - have at it, boys!

Of course, if you are truly locked into your final design, ignore this...
Click to expand...

Great idea if he wants to incorporate more scenery and more mainline operations. But I think he is looking for as much operations capability that he can get on the space he has available, with opportunities for expansion later.
 
Thanks for all the new suggestions guys. I don't what you mean about eliminating some of the duplicate tracks though. I carefully, I mean carefully thought out each section of track, and it has a specific source and destination. If I simplify too much, don't I lose the operational things that are available to do?

I really like the loop-around with the flying crossover, I actually got it from the book I just read Track Planning for realistic operation. So I don't think I could make a control center cutout in the middle without eliminating the loop. Maybe I could make the cutouts I have now a little bigger. Right now they are 2'x2'. The entire front edge of the outer track is where the edge of the table is..btw.

I think it's pretty good, I have my operations, my rail yard, spent a hell of a lot of time re-working it, I was up till 4am!:eek:

Anyways, unless there is something majorly wrong with it, I'm moving forward with this, and I have to start building the table now.
 
Motely, I hate to think we are just hammering on you for no rfeason. It's just that you'll be a lot happier not to have to rip up half your layout a year from now because things don't work right and you hate it.

First, your revised plan is much better. I'm not sure why you're locked into this flying crossover but you need to start your grade way back from the bridge to make it wprk. A 3" clearance is the absolute minumum you need for HO. It just doesn't look like you have enough run from the grain elevator to the bridge to have less than about a 9% grade, and that just won't work with even an engine and one car. If you cross at grade, you don't have this issue.

In terms of unneeded track, why do you need that long loop except to provide a line that will cross over another line? If you eliminated it, you could have a lot of space for a bigger yard and more scenery around the Denver station. Try to envision the layout without that inner loop and see what possibilities you could have. I like Beachhbum's idea of having a stream and bridge in the corner rather than a bridge which seems to serve no apparent purpose now.

It's your layout and none of us in in charge, so take what you want and leave the rest. Good luck and let us know how it's going.
 


Thanks Jim, I don't think you're all harping on me for no reason. ;) I really do appreciate all your help, in fact, when I start wiring this baby up, I will need alot of help.

About the loop around, that part of the layout is my favorite, I'm not going for absolute realism here, I know a real railroad would not have a big loop when they have a straight shot. I think of it as a scenic route between industries. Also I will have a 1" foam layer so I go downgrade to the plywood and only will have a 2" grade.

The bridge on the backside outer loop I will build up with foam about maybe 1" and I might be able to have a small creek under it.

Also, I can't seem to find any locomotives and stock to go with my theme. I want a passanger..an Amtrak, or similar, with sound and all. The diesle's with sound, do they have a switch to turn off the sound?
And for my two freight deseil's I want the non-sound with Rio Grand West. Any websites I've checked out I have not found anything like that.

btw, I'm cutting wood right now!!! omgtehduckbuttersauce! :D
 
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