Newbie with layout reccomendations

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Motley

Motley

Active Member
Hey everybody, I'm new to the hobby, well if you don't count the model trains I had when I was younger.. lol

I want to get a nice setup that will last me a couple of years. I want an HO scale, and my room size is: 11' x 9' (lower left 3' x 3' is for door opening and sitting area).

I found a free track layout program called RTS, and I came up with this design. I want to be able to run two trains at the same time. Also, do you have any book recommendations for me to get started?

I will have about $600-$700 budget for everything.

I appreciate any help on this!

HO13_1.jpg
 
Welcome back to model railroading! Nice job for your first attempt using track planning software. However, your track plan has a number of serious flaws. The first is that you've created two reverse loops, which cause unneeded electrical problems. The second is that, except for your trains running around in loops, they won't be able to do anything else. That might be fun for a week and then you'll get totally bored. The third is a reach problem. The average adult's reach is about 33". You will not be able to get at most of the layout without a hole in the middle somewhere and then having to crawl under the layout to get to it. This will get old (and painful) real fast. :)

I suggest you do a few things before you even start a track plan. Go to www.nmra.com and then to the Beginner's Guide. Take the time to read it. You'll learn a lot of basic informations about track plans, construction, scenery, operations, and all the new advances in electronics since you were a kid. If you have a local hobby shop, get a copy of John Armstrong's book Track Planning for Realistic Operation. If they don't have it, you can order it online from Amazon. Read through it and then start applying some of the lessons to create a couple of track plans based on what you want your railroad to do. Post them here and let us take a look. Doing some basic research and planning now will not only save you money, you'll get a much better layout in the end.
 
Thanks for all the info!!! Man this is gonna get serious for me, good thing I have no life and plenty of time! lol

btw, I'm gonna to the local hobby store and see if I can get some books.

I don't want to get way out of hand, I might do some simple landscaping. Do I need to cover it with foam too? How does the track stick to the foam? with nails?


Will $700 be enough for a decent complete setup? (1 passanger & 1 freight).

Anyways, I made some changes, with access holes, ...does this still suck?
HO13_2.jpg
 


Well, the plan sucks a little less. :) You still only have your trains running around in circles. Unless you are way skinnier guy than me, your pop-up holes are nowhere near big enough. Really, please do the reading I advised you to do and just abandon this layout plan for now. You'll come up with way better ideas in a day or two.

The average cost for a layout, including track, electronics, bench work, and basic scenery is between $50 and $100 a square foot, depending on the quality and quantity of each element. Trains are another story. One passenger train with an engine and five cars and a freight train with two engines and maybe 15 freight cars can easily run you $700 alone. Again, the amount will be less or more, depending on quality and type of items. A sound equipped locomotive has a typical price of $250. A basic DCC equipped locomotive can be had for about $70. You can check at www.walthers.com for a general idea of what's avalable and what things cost. But please do the reading I suggested before you go any further. Your train fever will overwhelm your common sense otherwise. :)
 
UP2CSX said:
Well, the plan sucks a little less. :) You still only have your trains running around in circles. Unless you are way skinnier guy than me, your pop-up holes are nowhere near big enough. Really, please do the reading I advised you to do and just abandon this layout plan for now. You'll come up with way better ideas in a day or two.

The average cost for a layout, including track, electronics, bench work, and basic scenery is between $50 and $100 a square foot, depending on the quality and quantity of each element. Trains are another story. One passenger train with an engine and five cars and a freight train with two engines and maybe 15 freight cars can easily run you $700 alone. Again, the amount will be less or more, depending on quality and type of items. A sound equipped locomotive has a typical price of $250. A basic DCC equipped locomotive can be had for about $70. You can check at www.walthers.com for a general idea of what's avalable and what things cost. But please do the reading I suggested before you go any further. Your train fever will overwhelm your common sense otherwise. :)
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I have to agree with Jim here. You really should read up at least a bit on track planning, otherwise when you build your layouts, they won't be very fun and will have many problems.
Nothing against you, we were all like this at one point or another.

And just a note about reversing loops: reversing loops are great operationally, as they allow you to turn trains around. However, you will probably have wiring problems with them, or, for that matter, anything designed to turn a train around, as the polarity of the rails has to change.
 
Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the help and suggestions you're giving me. So I went to the hobby store and checked all the great stuff out, wow there's alot!! omg

So the guy told me same thing you did, and I also told them I want a passanger car and it needs 22" curves (my plan was with 18"). They also said that if I want to run two trains at the same time, they need to be on seperate tracks.

So I've been at it all day, and I've come up with this layout, please let me know what you think...

HO13_3.jpg
 
See I don't understand what you guys mean. Like running in circles is boring? lol

With my latest layout, I would still have to control the switching, when I want to pull the train out, then get one on the outside track, then the other train on the inside track, then switch them around, seems like alot of work? lol

So by operations, you mean taking the train from a rail yard picking up cargo and bring it back? hell I don't know.

But remember my space is limited (11x9 - doorway in lower left). I've been researching alot of layouts, and they all seem to go in circles!

I am also planning on a raised trustle bridge on the outside right-side track, and maybe a few structures, nothing real crazy.:D
 
You need to ask yourself what the purpose of your layout is going to be. Do you want to run trains in circles (think of a Lionel Christmas display layout in an old department store or a display layout in a hobby shop)? Or do you want to simulate (as best as possible in a limited space) an operating railroad? Kind of like a slot car track with trains instead of autos versus something that moves railroad cars from one point to another for some reason. Running trains in circles at random is typically not realistic, however it can be quite satisfying if that's what YOU want.

I believe the answer to that first key question will tell you how to proceed.
 
motley, IMHO that layout will become boring quick.

since you looking long term i strongly suggest you look through this book. i wish i did before i settled on the plan. explains how things work in prototype and looks at implementing those on model layout.
 


Thanks for the input. Ya I agree, I don't want to spend all the time, money and energy into something that I will get bored with.

But remember, I'm new to this and I don't want to get real complicated, hell I'm scared about wiring the layout that I have now! lol

Do I have the room for such a layout with operations? I would like to have the passanger train running the outside, with maybe a station. Then I could come up with operations for freight on the inside layout? Should I shoot for that? Can I handle the complexities, wiring and such with all the switches, etc.

btw, on my way to the hobby store to pickup that book.
 
OK I'm going use a different space now. I have a finished half-basement, so now the new size of my layout will be 12.5' x 8' ah perf

I guess if I'm diving in, might as well go all out!!

I got that book y'all recommended, reading it now. Also the guy at the hobby store told me about two up-coming train shows here in town. (Denver, CO).

I'll come back with a better plan... with purpose!!!
 
Great idea. Carefully consider a shelf, around the wall layout, rather than one big layout table. You have enough space for continuous running with a 4x4 piece at each end and then have the rest be about 30" wide around the walls. You'll get a way longer mainline run, have more opprtunities to add industries for switching, and more room for scenery. Even more important, you'll be able to reach everything. :)
 
tankist said:
once again, that one i cannot recommend enough. instead of giving you fish in form of list of pre-made layouts they rather teach you how to fish - nice examples how to adopt various elements into existing space. wish i got it earlier
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Ya I'm reading it right now! Really good stuff so far, learning alot. Now I know something about operations! I'm all excited now like a kid in a candy store.. lol well don't we all act like kids anyways..
 
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OK I am finally done with my new layout!!!

I read that book, and now fully understand operations of a railroad. Awesome book btw.

So now I have some "purpose" to my layout. Let me know what you guys think. I sure hope I can wire this baby up! ;)

HO13_new.jpg
 
Larry Launstein Jr said:
How large are your access holes?
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They are 2'x2' sized holes. I have access on the entire front edge, and the sides and back are against the wall. Where the front track diagonal is where the edge of the table is.

I think I should be ok as far as reaching everything.
 


Much better track plan. Does that spur to the lumber mill cross both track at grade? If so, that an expensive way to run a spur and one most railroads would avoid. You could easily run the lumber mill spur off the mainline track opposite your popup hole and save yourself the expense of two crosings.

I see you have one line crossing over the other. Have you calculated the grade you need to do this? Since there are no dimensions on your plan, I can't do it, but you need at least 50" of track (called run) rising two inches for a 2% grade. What is the highest point from zero to the end of the spur? If we assum eit's four inches, 50" of run will give you a 4% grade, not impossible, but very steep. Any run shorter than 50" will give you an impossibly steep grade unless you're modeling a logging railroad with geared locomotives and hauling a few loads of lumber. Overyly steep grades also cause other problems, like cars uncoupling on the way up or down because the transition is too abrupt. Most modelers tend to build grades by eye without calculating the actual grade first and then live to regret it.
 
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