New Layout with Helix

[jwrape]

Well, I'm new here. I've had trains since I was 5. Mainly HO until about 6 years ago i got a O Scale to go around the Christmas tree.
As of the New Year I have dove into building a Layout for the second time in my life. I built a Helix with 60 "O" Scale Pre-war curved track, some pickets and two round Pine top and bottom.
I also built a wood bridge between the setups that goes behind my 1946 Shop Fridge.
I'll let you look at the pics.

and hopefully a loading yard here

 

[jwrape]

I'm gonna re-do the track risers. They do not look real. I am still trying to get a bunch of switches off Ebay for a deal. But I can go back anf forth from the top of the Helix to the far end with almost no stops. Cleaning that much track poses a few issues. I think I am going to soldier the tracks together on the Helix to make it run better. There are some lose connections between tracks.


I do need to know the best way to remove rust from my antique tracks.

I am not sure where I am going to lead the top of the Helix to yet. I was thinking either around the top of my shop cause I have a ledge above all my cabinets OR just have a turn around at the top.

Eventually, this Christmas the Helix will be part of our 12' tree. That was why I actually started building it. I want to wrap around the bottom leading to the Helix and then at the top it will loop around the tree and come back to the Helix... Should be cool. I am going to buy a Christmas Train to go around it. Hopefully by then the track will be VERY clean and work properly.

But this is my start. So far So good.

 

[Burlington Bob]

Looks like you're off to a good start. Will a loco make it to the top of the helix pulling a train? It looks to be a pretty steep grade and combined with sharp curves that places a lot of extra power requirements on the locos. I'm not familiar with the abilities of old Lionel so that may not be a problem.

For cleaning the rust maybe try a Dremel tool and some Scotchbrite. Good luck.

 

[jwrape]

Looks like you're off to a good start. Will a loco make it to the top of the helix pulling a train? It looks to be a pretty steep grade and combined with sharp curves that places a lot of extra power requirements on the locos. I'm not familiar with the abilities of old Lionel so that may not be a problem.

For cleaning the rust maybe try a Dremel tool and some Scotchbrite. Good luck.

Yea, so far I have made it with ease with about 5 cars pulled. It works rather well. Would need a helper if I ran a really long train up it.

 

[joed2323]

Your helix you built looks "crazy cool" thats a different way to build a helix. Its definitely cool to be different, i have not seen one setup that way before.

How tall is that monster? It looks to be pretty tall. You have a big range of seperation between levels by looking at the height of your helix.
Why such a big amount of separation?? Are you going from the floor up, or to the ceiling??

I will agree what bob said, your grade does look steep. How many cars would like to pull at one time?? Could it pull 10 cars up the grade??

Im not a huge Lionel fan, but you took it all to the next level, congrats! Your definitely going big which is awesome in my book..

Keep us posted with updates

 

[timlange3]

Yes, the Lionel track is steel so rust will always be a problem. Since you have it in a garage I suspect the temperature humidity control is not great.

It has been a long time since I worked with Lionel, does their Super O track use nickel silver rails or are they steel too? Nickel silver would be easier to maintain.

I remember the Lionel locos I had, they had 'magne-traction', the wheels were magnetized! The six axle Virginian I had would go full speed through turns and stick to the rails like glue, the box cars, not so much! As for grades there was no wheel slip. But the cars had truck mounted couples, so on sharp curves you had to watch for cars getting pulled off the track with long trains.

 

[jwrape]

Your helix you built looks "crazy cool" thats a different way to build a helix. Its definitely cool to be different, i have not seen one setup that way before.

How tall is that monster? It looks to be pretty tall. You have a big range of seperation between levels by looking at the height of your helix.
Why such a big amount of separation?? Are you going from the floor up, or to the ceiling??

I will agree what bob said, your grade does look steep. How many cars would like to pull at one time?? Could it pull 10 cars up the grade??

Im not a huge Lionel fan, but you took it all to the next level, congrats! Your definitely going big which is awesome in my book..

Keep us posted with updates

The 2x2 pickets are 4' tall and then there is a 3/4" round piece of wood at top and bottom so 49 1/2" tall.

I don't think 10 cars would make it. Maybe 7 or 8... It pulls really good.
I made it with space enough to fit my caboose with a little more room. My Caboose is my tallest car.
Since I made it to go up beside the Christmas tree I wanted to get there kinda fast and after 60 pieces I am glad it wasn't a lower grade cause I have a ton of track sittin' there.

The lionel pulls strong but my Marx pull faster. The problem with the Marx is that the trailing trucks will pop off every now and then.

When I have climbed it in the past few days breaking in the OLD track, I have only had to use half my dial on the transformer so I assume I could pull quite a bit more cars. I will eventually add some more cars when I get them. I have Marx cars and Lionel cars and they don't really match hitches.

Anyways, for now I am trying to figure out where the top of the Helix will lead to. Might just return it back down or maybe take it across the room. Haven't gotten thtat far yet

 

[jwrape]

Yes, the Lionel track is steel so rust will always be a problem. Since you have it in a garage I suspect the temperature humidity control is not great.

It has been a long time since I worked with Lionel, does their Super O track use nickel silver rails or are they steel too? Nickel silver would be easier to maintain.

I remember the Lionel locos I had, they had 'magne-traction', the wheels were magnetized! The six axle Virginian I had would go full speed through turns and stick to the rails like glue, the box cars, not so much! As for grades there was no wheel slip. But the cars had truck mounted couples, so on sharp curves you had to watch for cars getting pulled off the track with long trains.

90% of my track is Steel. Some of them are nickel but not many.
Yes I have had a issue of speed and pulling the cars off the track in a section of zig zag track. I added a little weight to the cars and it fixed the issue.

I am not a Lionel or Marx fan specifically. Those are just the ones I have.

Do you guys like something better? I have always heard that Lionels are the best but I am not in the loop really.

 

[jwrape]

Oh yea, between the tracks is 4" from top to bottom of tracks to let my caboose fit with clearence

 

[joed2323]

Anyways, for now I am trying to figure out where the top of the Helix will lead to. Might just return it back down or maybe take it across the room. Haven't gotten thtat far yet

Generally people build a helix to get between levels. If you having staging below your main level or another level on top of the main level you will need a way to connect these together. Some people use a elevator or even a nolix if you have a ton of room. But most juse use a helix to get from one level to the other.

Ive never heard of building one just to go up then just go straight back down. To me this seems like a waste of time, wood, and more importantly track.

If i was you i would build a second level. With a second level you get twice the mainline run.

 

[timlange3]

I had an extensive collection of Lionel, some pre-war, I sold all of it to finance my HO railroad. I do miss the Lionel though, it was easier to work on. I do enjoy the HO for the longer runs I can do in the same space and the big variety of rolling stock and such. I use DCC and would never go back to DC (or AC in the case of Lionel).

As my eyes age I do miss the larger scale. I will seriously consider a garden railroad if/when we move after retirement.

 

[jwrape]

I had an extensive collection of Lionel, some pre-war, I sold all of it to finance my HO railroad. I do miss the Lionel though, it was easier to work on. I do enjoy the HO for the longer runs I can do in the same space and the big variety of rolling stock and such. I use DCC and would never go back to DC (or AC in the case of Lionel).

As my eyes age I do miss the larger scale. I will seriously consider a garden railroad if/when we move after retirement.

A Garden train would be great! I have the space but not the money... This is a budget hobby for me. I have too many hobbies to spend too much on one particular.

I do have a NICE HO engine that I just got

 

[jwrape]

I took a video of the train running up the Helix to the top where it ends for now.
http://youtu.be/yNDRF95fk-o

I still need to smooth out and straighten the track in a couple places.

 

[Rico]

Cool, reminds me of the Polar Express scene on the mountain top!

 

[joed2323]

Your helix is way to steep, and the radius is pretty tight, for example, backing down the helix you about lost your whole train off the side of helix, luckly only one car fell off that i could see!

To me thats flirting with disaster, i would change the grade if i was you. It is your layout though, so i guess if its cool with you and you are happy with it, thats all that matters. I would just hate to see you destroy your loco from a fall that high.

 

[Selector]

This is a worthwhile adventure, but mostly an opportunity to learn some things. I think you did good work, but I see a critical error, one that may not show up today, or even tomorrow, but about the 15th time you run your train up that spiral, you will find your power becoming intermittent. The reason is that your stays support the rails mid-section, and not where they are naturally weak...at the joints. At least, I think that is what I see...I could be mistaken.

 

[jwrape]

Generally people build a helix to get between levels. If you having staging below your main level or another level on top of the main level you will need a way to connect these together. Some people use a elevator or even a nolix if you have a ton of room. But most juse use a helix to get from one level to the other.

Ive never heard of building one just to go up then just go straight back down. To me this seems like a waste of time, wood, and more importantly track.

If i was you i would build a second level. With a second level you get twice the mainline run.

LOL! No I built it to go somewhere. You are right that would be a waste otherwise, I just don't have it connected yet. I am still working on the design to connect it in a loop with the other end that is 20' away. I need to lay some more track.

 

[jwrape]

Cool, reminds me of the Polar Express scene on the mountain top!

That was the inspiration for it actually.... My daughter likes the PE train so I originally built it for the affect around the tree. I plan to buy the PE set to ride the track

 

[jwrape]

This is a worthwhile adventure, but mostly an opportunity to learn some things. I think you did good work, but I see a critical error, one that may not show up today, or even tomorrow, but about the 15th time you run your train up that spiral, you will find your power becoming intermittent. The reason is that your stays support the rails mid-section, and not where they are naturally weak...at the joints. At least, I think that is what I see...I could be mistaken.

Yes, you are correct. It is at the weak point I am thinking about a resolution right now.
Matter of fact I am waiting to connect it to the rest of the set because I am still working out the kinks. There are a few little places where the train isn't exactly smooth, so I am adjusting it as I run it up and down

I have gotten it to pull up perfectly with 5 cars. I added a little weight to my tender and now it pulls and reverses perfectly. Before I added the weight the Tender was pushing the next car off the line. Now it pull smooth.



The Incline hasn't been a problem. I know it looks steep, but I assume maybe its the picture or something cause the loco has no trouble getting up it and it has Extra power if needed. No slipping or anything. I am trying more and more cars but the longer I make it, the more the cars wanna jump track from pulling the weight. I have noticed if I add a little weight to the cars they run MUCH smoother and don't jump.

One thing I have done is to connect the track via extra soldiered connections from the bottom layer to the top layer and from one of the center layers to another to make sure the continuity is there. So far I have a good constant pull all the way up.

The reason I built the Helix in the fashion I did is because it shows off the train and the track more than some Helix's that you see a lot of the support material.

I am still going to add angled supports to all the track supports to level them properly.

The radius would be a problem for a larger locomotive but my 2-6-2 works fine, anything bigger would not make it I would think....

Overall it works great.

The plan is to climb up to the top and take a extension bridge to the far end of the layout.

 

[jwrape]

I think I have figured out why climbing the Helix is easier.
I think it's because I used old steel rails that seem to have better tractions because there is another section of my track where my Loco can't push up it without spinning because it is that Tin/Nickel track. Very slippery.

It was really dumb luck that I used steel on the helix.