New Hobby Idea: Non-Operating Collectibles?

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railfan727

New Member
When I was a kid, my dad and I had an N scale layout based on the Conrail Indianapolis Division mainline through our hometown of Anderson, IN (MP 245 to MP 250 from Cleveland, now QI-245 to QI-250 under CSX). Once I started college, my parents sold their house and moved to an apartment in Indianapolis as the local economy in Anderson was tanking... and we sold off all of our models since we would no longer have any place to display or run them, and all the new stuff was becoming overwhelmingly expensive in the quantities that we desired anyway. But I still love trains (and planes too... my username is a nod to the Boeing 727, my favorite). And I have been collecting 1:400-scale diecast airliners since my high school days and I'm still going strong. I would get back into model railroading in a heartbeat if I could, but right now I simply don't have the space or the resources to make that possible.

This got me thinking... what if there were a line of diecast, non-operating railroad models that were designed specifically for static display by those who love trains and would like to have some models of their favorite locomotives and rolling stock but don't have the time, space, money, craftsman skills, or desire to build a layout of their own or be part of a club. And to me, there's really no incentive to collect models intended for operation only to put them on static display, as the features (motor, DCC and lighting circuitry, working couplers, lights, etc.) that contribute so heavily to the cost would be wasted. Sort of like buying a Lamborghini as a "garage ornament" with no intent to actually go out and drive it.

Since they wouldn't be intended for operation, there wouldn't necessarily be a reason to conform to the established scales, and smaller scales (like the common aircraft scale 1:250, or maybe 1:320 "half N") could come into play without having to sacrifice dimensional accuracy to accommodate moving parts; for example the Marklin Z-scale F-units from years ago with the trucks elongated to accommodate the gears. Trucks and wheelsets could even be made as a single piece solely for visual effect, and rigidly attached to the body. Wheel flanges could be represented in a scale size (or close to it) without having to worry about whether they'll stay on the track or not. And in a scale small enough, separate grab irons, radio antennas, and the like wouldn't be needed... these could just be printed in a contrasting color (maybe a shade or two darker or lighter than the body color if they aren't painted a different color on the prototype). So the cost could probably be reduced well below that of operating equipment, which could encourage people to collect larger quantities. They could be done in small runs, as diecast aircraft or even conventional model railroad equipment are done today, with multiple road numbers done either at once or in sequence to increase variety for collectors (who wouldn't want just one BNSF C44-9W with all the different number series those are in, right?).

What I'm envisioning here is actually a new hobby, one that would both complement model railroading and offer an alternative to those "wanna-be" modelers like me who would love to do it but can't at the moment, rather than competing with it. Its relationship to model railroading would be like that between diecast aircraft collecting and R/C flying. Theoretically, one could have a whole cabinet of "ultra-small-scale" locomotives and cars on display in the kitchen/dining area and a full-out HO empire down in the basement.

It seems to me that there's a huge opportunity here that no one's taking advantage of. I actually proposed this to a well-known maker of diecast aircraft, but they turned it down flat as they have no interest in non-aviation subjects. I still have a feeling that if I get this idea in front of the right people, someone will take off and run with it. I know this might seem like sort of a weird way to make my first post on here, but I wanted to run my idea by some model railroaders and get your thoughts...

Bruce Bridges
Indianapolis, IN
 
Well howdy Bruce. Welcome aboard. I am in Brownsburg by the way ;)

I actually think that would be a good idea. I am really surprised it hasn't been done already. I wouldn't mind starting a small display case with die-cast replicas to compliment the layout I am building. But I will probably do that with the locos I don't keep on my layout eventually. I see where you are coming from though. There are quite a few model companies out there you approach with this.
 
This has been tried over the years by some companies like KitMaster, Airfix, Revell and Monogram. I'm sure that I've left others out as well, but those are all I remember. Kitmaster had the likes of a NKP berkshire, and Monogram had both a Big Boy and NYC J-1 Hudson. It should be noted that except possibly the Monogram BB kit, all the others are gone.

It seems that unlike the diecast models of the Nascar racers, that static trains seems to be a no go. They were/are not really popular. I guess that folks want their trains to run, and not sit on a desk/mantle not doind anything.
 


I agree with Carey, if a market was there, it would have been exploited long ago.

As far as having running gear in them I can remember the first time I saw Brass locos in a display case in a hobby shop in NZ. I asked the owner if they ran. He said "Oh yes, I never have, I just like looking at them."
 
Of course, if you're going to put the time and effort into building something from a kit, it might as well be operable!!! What I had in mind were models that were pre-finished and ready to go, like my airliners. .. taking advantage of the lack of need of operation by possibly being in a smaller scale and having some parts simplified for cosmetic effect only to bring the cost down. It seems to me that kits are on their way out ask across the board. .. replaced in railroading with RTR models, and in aviation with plastic snap-together pre-finished models (Hogan, Wooster, etc.) or diecast like what I collect currently. I know most models nowadays could be considered collectible by virtue of their limited runs. .. But when I was an operator, I resented this a great deal. I wanted to be able to just get what I wanted when I wanted and build up a quantity over time. I wanted at least 50 Conrail 86' auto parts boxcars in both 4 and 8 door versions with different logo and lettering variations. .. At the time, several trains through Anderson (INTO, STBN, INBU are some of the ones I remember) were virtually all hi-cubes and I wanted to replicate them. But I was never able to because I didn't have the means to go out and get all 50 cars all at once. And I got mad at the collectors for going out and snapping everything up as soon as it came out.

Micro-Trains has actually done pretty well building up a collector-oriented product line with the rotating monthly releases, and this would be the sort of business model I'm envisioning here. But as an operator, I really disliked the fact that I could only afford one of each when I wanted at least a dozen to fill out my trains. So it would be nice if there were a product intended specifically for collectors who weren't interested in operation in order to take the competition off of the operator market.

As a potential collector and former operator, my view is that any model intended for operation should stay in the hands of operators...

Kevin, my wife and I live on the west side and come to Brownsburg quite often. Have you ever eaten at So Italian?
 
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railfan727 said:
This got me thinking... what if there were a line of diecast, non-operating railroad models that were designed specifically for static display by those who love trains and would like to have some models of their favorite locomotives and rolling stock but don't have the time, space, money, craftsman skills, or desire to build a layout of their own or be part of a club.
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There were a few of these about a decade ago. Don't remember the brand but I got a bunch of them when they got moved the clearance rack because no one wanted them. I they are slightly larger than N-scale. I think there was a Baldwin Trainmaster, an Alco or Fairbanks Morris hood, and of course the EMD F3. It has also been tried in plastic model kit form. Not good sellers. I think for this to work one could not start small and work into it. From the start one would have to manufacture a huge selection of models and paint schemes, along with a huge marketing campaign. Unfortunately then if it doesn't take off, that initial huge investment is lost. It would make a good capstone project for a product development class though.

In another sense this is exactly what the old "dummy" locomotive models were too. Once again no one bought them.

Sort of like buying a Lamborghini as a "garage ornament" with no intent to actually go out and drive it.
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Actually, I think that is exactly what most Lambroghini's are. Check out the used market for them and note how many are low mileage cars.
 
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And I just realized I've run us all straight into the old "collector versus operator" that's been raging since the days of the ancient Greeks, or at least well before my days as an (increasingly frustrated) N-scale operator...

Having seen both sides of the coin, I will attempt to summarize my philosophy;

Operators:
- Desire models that look good, operate reliably, and are inexpensive enough to be purchased in quantity
- Multiple road numbers available
- Each model should be generally available at any time; no limited runs on the most common prototypes except maybe an occasional change of road numbers to spice things up a little
- Only brief out-of-stock periods on each model to help make room for other production
- Occasional limited runs of rare roadnames or paint schemes
- Most operators don't care about the rarity of their models in the market; they only want what they need to replicate prototype operations of their desire
- Leave most assembly work to the modeler to keep costs down
- "Old Athearn" business model, except serving both HO and N

Collectors:
- Limited runs are perfectly OK as few will want more than one of any given model anyway; predetermined number of pieces of each. This is the standard business model for 1:400 diecast airliners. And probably why the models that Iron Horseman described didn't do well, because they might not have been specifically marketed as a limited run.
- Elimination of operating features for the following benefits:
- Cost reduction (for both locomotives and cars)
- New scales (even smaller than N or Z) possible without compromising dimensional accuracy for practicality
- Wheel flanges can be made true scale size
- Finer details can be simplified or eliminated in the smallest scales with little or no visual impact
- Reduced production cost combined with perceived scarcity in market due to limited runs would dramatically increase profit potential for manufacturers
- "Diecast airliners" business model

It seems that the aim for most manufacturers these days (I first noticed this trend back in the 90s, but it may have been going on longer) is to try to straddle the fence by producing "operating collectibles"... but I'm not sure that this is the best way to satisfy the needs of the big-time prototype modelers and operators.

And starting small can work if it's done the right way. Gemini Jets (my preferred brand of 1:400 diecast) started in the late 90s with three models in 1:400 scale: the Boeing 747-400 and 757-200, and the Lockheed L-1011. Now they have made almost every airliner that ever existed, and some of the regional jets and commuters also. And they've introduced a line of superdetailed 1:200 diecast models, 1:72 warbirds, and 1:400 military cargo planes since then. And they're starting with light civil planes (Cessnas and Pipers) now.
 
I remember a few of these kinds of trains.
Franklin Mint did diecast pewter miniatures of engines in about the scale you describe.

7118086_1_l.jpg


Hallmark makes new Christmas ornaments each year, and some years I believe they have had some nice looking non-operational engines. The automobile ornaments they do now are diecast, but I don't know about the trains.

And I remember seeing diecast engines and freight cars hanging on the racks at Toys R Us and Target just a couple years ago. They may have been made by a company by the name of New Ray.
train33.jpg
 
we had that like discussion on a brass collectors forum, once in a while someone males a short run collectable somewhere, then never made again. For the brass collector I have some of those models (for running) the brass maker would make this fabulous looking model, then the drive train would be almost the cheapest design around. (alco models) possibly made more for the expensive brass collector sitting on a shelf model. That about like some of these toy trains design, run them a while, they break..by design. I think someone made a model of a philadelphia transit electric model, but it was non-operating, sold in the tourist store, but totally scale HO. HObbyline years ago made the NKP berk and an 0-4-0 non-operating and someone made a powering kit for it. Like the above pewter collection it may have been a promotion tied to a railroad history promotion. I think you will find a wider market for operating models than stationary ones.
 
railfan727 said:
...Kevin, my wife and I live on the west side and come to Brownsburg quite often. Have you ever eaten at So Italian?
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Yeah, every once in awhile. It's kind of pricey for what I would consider fast food. Their pizza's do look yummy though :p

Jim, that is who I was trying to think of. The Franklin Mint. That it what it would take to introduce something like this. How about a "Locomotive of the Month Club". I'd be interested ;)
 


Now see, I liked the thought of them being small pewter collectables. Those would just tick me off because they don't run LOL. Very cool find though. And they are in the proper scale even.
 
I had to look that word up. The paucity of my vocabulary had me wondering what paucity meant ;)
 
That F45 is probably the closest thing I've seen so far too what I envision. But I really wasn't inquiring so much about existing offerings as much as pondering the feasibility of a new product line specifically marketed to collectors not interested in operating. In other words, fine art pieces worthy of being collected as such rather than being primarily intended for operation. All of the existing offerings seem rather toy-like while I was thinking more along the lines of fine display pieces that are inexpensive enough to be collected in quantity, with a wide variety of subjects. Along the lines of the diecast airliner industry in case any of you are familiar with that.
 
Problem is "Fine Art Pieces" and inexpensive rarely go together. Also very hard to find a manufacturer willing to spend thousands of dollars on tooling for models that very possibly will have little interest.
 
railfan727 said:
That F45 is probably the closest thing I've seen so far too what I envision. But I really wasn't inquiring so much about existing offerings as much as pondering the feasibility of a new product line specifically marketed to collectors not interested in operating. In other words, fine art pieces worthy of being collected as such rather than being primarily intended for operation. All of the existing offerings seem rather toy-like while I was thinking more along the lines of fine display pieces that are inexpensive enough to be collected in quantity, with a wide variety of subjects. Along the lines of the diecast airliner industry in case any of you are familiar with that.
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With the current economy, it would be a very risky business to get into. If you don't mind me straying from the subject of trains for a moment, I think a look at the 1/18 scale collectable diecast car model hobby is in order. At the beginning of the 1990's, there were very few manufacturers making 1/18 scale diecast cars. Ertl introduced a couple of 1/18 scale American car models and the hobby took off. By the early 2000's there were several manufacturers in the game with product quality and price varying enough to have appeal to all levels of collectors. But, the changing economy and the increasing cost of production in China drove the prices up. Meanwhile, consumer spending decreased. For years, you could walk into any Toys R Us stores in America and find an entire aisle of nice 1/18 scale diecast cars all in the $20-$35 range. Every year, scores of new molds were made, keeping collector interest high. But as the pricing increased, collectors cut back on spending. Fewer were sold. Now even some of those same cars that were $20 to $35 each years ago, now are released in new colors but are in the $70 range. The hobby has all but died. There are only a handful of manufactures left in the market, and very few new molds are made.

Although the diecast models you are describing would be considerably smaller, the high detail means a high cost of production. They would need to sell an awful lot of each casting to pay for the cost of making the molds.
 
I think the problem is that if you get something that is high enough quality to be worthy of collecting, you'd probably be able to find real running locos for the same price, if not cheaper. Might as well buy a runner, or one that used to run, and put it on the shelf. You'd at least get the detail and quality you're talking about
 


Hi railfan727,

I like you idea and I think there is a market for affordable collectible trains. I mainly build static model tanks and airplanes in 1/72 scale. But sometime I am also into the HO scenery stuff - also static :D. So I can understand the desire for models purely for display.
 
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