Need some help please.

[GardenMaster]

Okay I need some help with the following:

I currently have this product: http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/trainshuttle.html which is for running a DCC train back and forth. My layout is as follows:

_____________<===========>________________

Basically I have a single track with a passing siding in the middle. I did this so that my train would not have to stop each time in the middle.
Now I got to thinking, that it would be possible to run two trains on the same track since I have a passing siding.

So my question is: How would I automate the movement of two trains on this very simple layout? I understand that one train would always run slightly faster than another, so to avoid a train wreck, how would I set this up to work? Any suggestions/advice, electronics I need, etc... would all be appreciated. I just need some safety so that one train does not need up rear ending another.

Thanks.

 

[wombat457]

I believe you will need to create "blocks" on your layout and am thinking that you will need 4 of them, one for the siding, one for the section of main line that runs along the siding and one for each section of track on the main line before and after the siding turnouts. If you are using a Digitrax System (for example) you would need a BDL 168 Block Detector (or similar) to which you feeders attach.

For automation, I would suggest using JMRI computer software which is a freeware program.

Hope I am on the right track here and, if I am, this helps a little.

 

[GardenMaster]

Thanks for the suggestion and pointers. I will have to explore and look into those. I was definitely thinking blocks, I just wish there was some really simple way of achieving the effect without needing a computer. Perhaps that is the only way to make that work....

 

[GardenMaster]

I think the simplest method would be the use of normally closed reed switches. Glue a magnet under the last car on each of my train. When the magnet is over the reed switch it would cut power to the section behind. Thus no train could rear end the other. Now I just have to find normally closed reed switches. lol

 

[The Train]

Your layout would work with just 1 reed switch. Reed switches are normally open unless you use a second magnet. Basically you have to use the reed switch to turn power off on one leg of your siding. The second train would come and turn that train on when reaching a certain point. It is the simplest way of doing it, but you will always need two running trains unless you install a bypass switch.

_________<==============>______________
.......A.......................B.............................C

Basically have point "B" be dead. When a train enters point "C" it activates the reed switch and thus turns power on for point "B". That train since it is reversing direction will end up on the dead track section of point "B" and have to wait until the other train makes it to point "C".

Your current time delayed stop at point "B" would be variable in the sense that the waiting time would become dependent on how fast/slow the other train is moving. As the wait time is equal to the time it takes a train to go from point "A" to point "C". As you know your current electronic equipment can be wired to not include the middle stop. You would want to disconnect that, and use the reed switch to determine when the train operates.

Some other possible consideration points:
1. You might want multiple reed switches wired in parallel close to one another. This would give you "slack" in the sense that the train activating the circuit only needs to make one out of say 5 possible reed switches to work. Otherwise you have to worry about where your magnet is mounted, and if your train stops at the exact same spot each and every time. By using say 5 reed switches, perhaps you could have a 5 inch section in which as long as the magnet is anywhere on there, it would activate the circuit. Otherwise you would have to mount a lot of magnets under your train.
2. You could use all the high tech and expensive solutions that wombat457 suggests, but it is going to be more confusing, more expensive, and more involved. I doubt you want to spend 5 to 10 minutes following a procedure to start up your layout. I would think that just plugging it in and getting an instant operation would be better.

Overall, make one of your track sections say the detection piece, and the longer the detection piece the better as it will give you more play. Obviously longer within reason. I would say anywhere from 5 inches long to 10 inches or so would be fine. Also your electronics that you currently have allow you to stop your train at each end for 0 to 60 seconds. You might need the train to stop for about 10 seconds so that the circuit provides power long enough to get the engine rolling.

Block detection, computers, and etc... Just want anyone wants to use and need. Spend $500 or so in computer parts if not more, to try and get it to work, when $13 or so in reed switches would work perfectly and easily.

GardenMaster stick to the easy way. Do not overcomplicate your set up.

 

[trailrider]

If you are running two DCC-equpped trains, then the simplest way is to program the address for each locomotive to different values (factory default is usually 003). Since one train that takes the siding will have to stop until the one on the main passes (unless, of course both trains are short enough to permit a "saw by", with both trains are moving in opposite directions and are short enough that each is contained in a short enough length of track to permit such action), if you have a dual control DCC throttle pack, and can walk and chew gum at the same time...which I have great difficulty doing...you can do this manually. Best of luck!

 

[Iron Horseman]

So my question is: How would I automate the movement of two trains on this very simple layout? I understand that one train would always run slightly faster than another, so to avoid a train wreck, how would I set this up to work? Any suggestions/advice, electronics I need, etc... would all be appreciated. I just need some safety so that one train does not need up rear ending another.

I actually made a very simple circuit for this for a DC layout (City Of Thornton Light Rail Promo Layout). As I recall it had 4 block detectors (twin-T type), and 5 relays. BUT the trains didn't slow down and stop they just reversed direction at the very slow "full speed", nor did they stop in the middle. Turnouts were sprung so the trains always took the right hand side of the passing track.

The first thing I see is that you could not directly continue to use the Train Shuttle device. Its directions explicitly say "Note: You must not hook the output of a Train Shuttle to any other DCC source, including another Train Shuttle or damage will result." Since it has no input for signals or controlling a second unit, to use it one would have to configure the locos to run on the same channel just in different directions, and then wire the layout to simply cut power to a track when necessary to prevent collisions (see "The Train"'s post above).

I think the better option would be to purchase a full real DCC system that can interface to a computer. Add the block detection as the others have suggested, and program the computer to hold a train in the siding until the block in front of it is clear. I'm guessing the program would not be more than 40 lines and most of that would be the set up to do the initial sync with the DCC system.

 

[GardenMaster]

For those wondering, I was able to use reed switches, except that I gave up on the idea, because even if positioned just right, the electronics would stop both trains and switch both's direction when one just got to an end section. I ended up just going with a single line that has a train going back and forth. While I appreciate the advice about using a computer, I just am not a big fan of all that stuff. I want to just turn on and let the train run. No fooling around with a computer.