N-Scale Mountain Layout

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F

fmjnax

New Member
This is my first attempt at designing a layout. I'm open to all criticism/suggestions/ideas/opinions.

This layout is a "scenic view" only layout. It's simply to run a train through a mountainous view. I want to take advantage of tunnels, bridges, and elevation changes. The layout is an L-shape made up of three 3x3 "tiles" (27sqft total). At some point I MAY expand onto it, but for right now that is all it will be.

I used SCARM to design this and it doesn't fully handle scenery too well, so I've tried to fill in the blanks. Take a look at the first picture and I will try to walk you through it.

- The beginning point for this tour is the lower right hand of the picture.
- We begin by entering a helix @ 3.8% grade (point A).
- When we exit the helix (at point B) at an elevation of 10, we ride a ridge point around to the next tunnel/helix (point C).
- Before moving on, I'll point out that the black lines reaching up above the layout signifies the rest of the mountain that SCARM wouldn't render. Both Helices will be fully enclosed without the mountain. I will keep the mountain hollow for track access from under the bench.
- Back on track, the train enters the tunnel/helix (point C) where we drop, at a 4% grade, to an elevation of 6 at the exit.
- Out of this exit (point D), we ride a shallow valley ridge into another tunnel (not pictured, but just below point C).
- When we come out (point E), we begin dropping elevation slightly as we ride the ridge around to the first bridge (point F). The bridge levels out at 3.3 elevation.
- After we cross the bridge, we continue another small gentle decrease in elevation as we round a small foothill and we cross back over the river at the next bridge (point G) at an elevation of 2.4.
- The short journey from point G to point H enters into another tunnel which exits at point I. I should note that the black spiral indicates a peak of the mountain.
- We begin to drop elevation slightly again as we round another foothill and follow the river banks until we reach the tunnel at point J.
- This tunnel continues out drop to level elevation and emerges at point K at which point the journey has come full circle.

Again, this is my first attempt at designing a layout, but I tried to keep with the normal physics of nature. I'm open to any and all opinions, suggestions, questions, etc.
 
There might be a few devils in the details somewhere......but it looks pretty cool to start with!

Mike
 
I've been thinking off-n-on about a spaghetti N scale layout. I think you're on a good course, but I'd try to avoid too much helixing. Maybe figure out ways to weave in and out of tunnels over there. Create the opportunity for a few sidings along the way so you can put in some civilization and have something to stop for.

Looking forward to your progress!
 


Thanks guys. Is ~4% grade too much? After doing some more research, I've been seeing numbers between 2 and 3%. I won't be running long trains here and I'm trying to get the most elevation as possible packed into the space (to fit my rocky mountain theme).

I went back out to the location where the layout will be held and did some more measuring. As a result, I've decided to extend each end of the L by another 4' each, so that will give me more space to play with elevation and to do some more functional tasks. I've got a neat little revision in the works that I will post up tomorrow sometime.
 
Personally I think 4% is not too much. Especially if your cars are super smooth rolling, and perhaps under weight but just a tad. But you'll want to avoid long curves and tight curves. Having the additional 4' could help with that by allowing you to wiggle to one end of the table, then back to the middle or the other end, etc, rather than laying into three loops of a helix.

I applaud this project - I'm really looking forward to your plans as this is something I've wanted to work on for quite some time.
 
If you made the main helix on the right side a 'layer cake helix(helix with decreasing diameters as you climb), you could 'daylight' part of it. What about passing sidings? I think even if its a dummy siding, including at least one or two, will add some interest both visually and from an operational standpoint.

I don't have enough experience with N scale to know whether 4% is too steep or not.

Mountain railroading is always a favorite!

What size radius curves are you using? If you plan on running long trains at some point, don't want to make the curves to tight. Looks like your curves are on the order of 9". I'd go with at least 11" radius curves, but others may have other opinions.

Looking forward to more photos/drawings/etc...
 
In the picture that is posted in the first post (we'll call it the compact version), I was using a lot more 9" curves than I should have. The plan was that I would just be running a very short train; maybe around 5 cars.

That said, the new (enlarged) plan is going to be adding two small junctions (a mining junction and a farming junction). This will bring in a few sidings and will mean a longer train. I'm going to try and bring the grade down to 2.5-3% and I will be using 11" curves with just a few 9's where needed. My overall elevation may need to come down to make it all happen, but I think the trade-off is well worth it. It will still be a single main line, but I'm toying with the idea of having two separate/independent lines running (an inner and an outer, if you will).

I will have the new design drafted up here in a few hours and hopefully the new vision unfolds ok.
 
Ok, here's the initial draft of the new changes:

- I scrapped the idea of running two individual lines. It just would have been too busy, I think.
- There are two "junctions"; one at the mining camp (will have the mines, maybe a small store, and some small shacks/tents littered about the mountain side) and another at the little farming community
- I reduced the number of helices and was able to spread my elevation out a bit more evenly. I also dropped my max elevation from 10 to 6, so it brings everything closer together.
- I changed my max grade from 4% to 3%, with most being closer to 2.5%
- With the exception of a couple of pieces, all curves are 11" curves now.

With that said, it's on to the tour of the images!

The first image diagrams the busy/mountain/mining side.
- Right up front you can see the little exchange/siding that will service the area (I'll have the store/shacks/etc lined up with a platform of sorts)
- The train enters the mountain at point A. It slowly gains elevation at a 2.5% grade and exits at point B
- Point B runs a ridge around middle mountain and enters back in to the mountain at point C
- Point C is kind of no-mans-land. The train will disappear in the mountain for quite a while while it gains elevation at a 2.5% grade. It performs 2.5 helices during this point (you can see them in the wire-frames) and exits out on the back-side at point D. The helices will be hollow and accessible from below so the extensive tunnel shouldn't be a big deal

The next picture diagrams the corner section. There isn't much to this.
- When the train exits the mountains, it will cross over the river
- Across the river, it will follow the ridge line, slowly descending as it crosses the river a second time and prepares to enter the farming area. The grade is -2.5% still.

The final picture shows the farming area and the yard. I know I will have a small community in here so that's why I left the inner section clear. I've never built a yard before, so the design may change.
- As the train leaves the bridge, it has the option to stop at a grain silo/farm/elevator that is up on a plateau above the community.
- Leaving the silo, it finishes the descent and runs along side the yard. It has the option then to make use of the yard or it can bypass and continue on
- Leaving the community, it crosses the river and enters into a tunnel
- Leaving the tunnel, it follows along a steep ridge and crosses the river for a final time before joining back up with the mining camp.

So there is the new layout (so far). I'm really pleased with the mining camp area. The community side might go through some revisions, but I think I like it as well. I might need a couple of spurs for some other simple pickups, but I'll have to see where I can work them in. My biggest concern is on the yard. I've never designed one before so I'm not sure how functional I am with it at this point. With the lower grade, changing the curves to 11's, and adding the two junctions, I will likely be running some longer trains. I'll have to evaluation my sidings and the yard to make sure they are long enough for what I need.
 
FM,
I like the changes-but it involves a lot more space.

One observation is that railroads often run parallel to rivers maybe crosing back and forth if the river curves a lot. Bridges add interest.

The 2 left drawings remind me of the Rio Grande, climbing the Front Range outside of Denver. If you're not familiar with it, you might want to take a look, for ideas.

Other than that, my only other comment is that you're following the table edge a lot, which has its place, but also can be visually boring, after a while(what a lot of people do, when they start out).

I look forward to following the thread going forward!
 
Thanks otis. I dabbled with some designs following the river but I just wasn't happy with it. It's not entirely fitting for the layout, but I just kept remembering back to the steep canyon drives we would take on Sunday afternoons and the trains would jump the canyon side-to-side. So it's not entirely out of place, but it's definitely not the same.

That said, I'm not sure that I am happy with the left side at all. I absolutely agree that it is using the edge far too much (I like it on the mine side, though). I wouldn't be opposed to changing it up... if I could figure out what to do. The biggest problem that I kept coming up with was that I had a higher elevation at the front than at the back, which obviously is no good. I'm going to try and work a switchback, of sorts, but I'm afraid I will loose the community aspect and the yard. The idea of having functions has kind of grown on me. I guess I will see what I can come up.

If anyone has some other ideas on what I can do with the left side, I am all ears!
 


Ok, so no replies on the 2nd revision, but I've put in some more time redesigning the left hand side.

In this revision:
- The mining side remains as-is.
- I threw out the low-level farming valley.
- I added in a logging camp with an interesting siding.
- I threw out the river.
- I decided to keep firm with the mountain theme.
- I raised elevation a few more inches, which essentially gave me 4 and a half elevation levels on the left leg.
- I reduced the size of the yard/junction on the left leg. It will be more of a small camp rather than a junction at this point.

So here is the new design. So far, this has been my favorite one BY FAR. I can already picture the left side switchbacks with the train running in and out of the mountainside.

Speaking of all of these switchbacks, I took special precaution to ensure that every rail passing has at minimum 2" of clearance above and below. I won't be running any doubles or anything tall, so I should be good on this.

I also got stuck having to use two 9.75 switchbacks in order to fit my clearance requirements. They're both on flat grades, though, so I should be good on them as well.

There's too much going on here to try and give a step-by-step tour, so I'll just kind of highlight on the new things:
- The logging camp is located in the back corner at the peak of the hillside. The siding here is for the log loading and actually sides clear through the tunnel with the main line (had to do it this way to provide enough train room)
- The switchbacks all vary in grades, but no incline is higher than 2.5% and no decline is more than 3.7%. I really had to work with the grades to get my 2" clearance requirement met. You can bet your rear end that it is doing to be a challenge to build all of it just right without wrecking havoc on the adjoining segments. The rewards will greatly outweigh the risk, though!
- The town has been reduced to more of a quick stop. The yard is reduced and there won't be much room for buildings or industry. I will likely throw in some roadway off the left leg to create the illusion that product gets carried out somewhere else (from this design, I can't really do it with rail).
- The mining stop remains entirely the same
- The river idea is currently gone. I may do a mountain creek or stream, but it won't be a focal point by any means.

I'm still trying to decide on an era that I want to try and scene this as. The only locomotive I have (so far) is a C40-8W, so that would date me at the late 80's. That might work ok for me, but I may want to go back in time a little more (so I'm open for suggestions on what might sound fitting!).
 
I like spaghetti as well (obviously!). I've always been a rollercoaster fanatic, so maybe that plays in to a it a bit. I also enjoy watching long lengths of train on a straight course, but I'm limited on my space for now.

I've got a busy week ahead of me, but I'm hoping to start the bench work over the weekend. I've also started to acquire my track, though that is probably going to take a while to get everything. Progress is progress, though.
 
The guys who like to operate their layouts like a railroad will correctly warn you about all the S-curves. You can't push too many cars backwards through S-curves.....they will easily derail.....and you might get some derailments going forward too if you have long trains. If you want a yard area to do switching it's best to keep the curves going the same direction within that district and avoid S-curves.



Mike
 
Thanks Mike. How many cars would you classify as "too many"? I'm not planning on running more than a few cars; probably seldom more than 4 or 5 at a time. It's not my intention to have a lot of industry or multiple types of rolling stock. Heck, I'm not even big on operations. I really like to just run trains, but I put in the sidings and the small yard just in case I ever want to do some switching. I will just run a little less speed when I'm maneuvering the S-curves through the switchbacks. On a slightly unrelated side note, are banked turns ever used in [model] railroading?

Back on topic, would it be acceptable/realistic if I added a straight spur directly ahead of the yard entrance? That would eliminate the S-curve backing in. The only potential problem will be space. If I ever decided to run a long train, I may not have the space on the spur to get the entire train on. If it's not acceptable/realistic, then I suppose I could flip the yard to be entered from the inner rail, but I would have to remove the little curve around the base of the mountain; which wouldn't be a big deal. I could flatten the inside section and just to a retaining wall on the mountain side.
 
Hello Sir,
As you can tell from my profile I am a newbie. I have spent hours upon hours trying to come up with a mountain based layout for my L shaped table (12x8) and then I saw yours! Please I am begging can you somehow provide me with any detailed plans or something to help me convert what I am seeing on the screen as your layout into something tangible or any help trying to plan that out. It is the perfect layout and I am dying to use it. Thanks in advance,
Kyle
 


Hi guys! It's been a LONG while since I've been on the forums. I never got around to building this layout as we moved from Texas to Colorado shortly after I finished the design. We'll be moving back to Texas in the next few months so hopefully I will be able to get to a point where I can finally start.

Kyle - I will dig up the files on my PC when I get home.

Mixy - Thanks for that link! That sparks my interest enough to get back in there and do some playing around!
 
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