My mess - New project

[completenewbie]

So I've begun my project and would like some feed back - don't worry I can take it.

I have an 8x10 area which will be shaped in a U (horseshoe) - 4x8 on each side, 4x4 in center at back leaving a center section for working and about 1' foot around the perimeter - if I don't gain anymore girth I should be able to fit - if not, the wife will be doing the work at the back.

So, I've laid out a track plan which I'm so-so ok with. I used the AnyRail trial version so I ran out of track and had to draw a few things in on the lower left and right side where the turn arounds are.

The bottom or main level is the O 27 track and the track at the back is HO. I find it very odd that I can make a smaller circle with O 27 track than I can with HO track - been driving me nuts for 2 days.

The pics are lower level, back upper lever (mtns/hills) and I combined them both to show the overall

Thanks in advance for any critique and assistance.
Here's my first layout:

Upper Level

Lower/Main Level

Both levels combined

Thoughts?

 

[ICG/SOU]

With 3 rail, the curves are listed as a diameter, or how wide (in inches) to turn a train 180 degrees. With 2 rail, especially HO, curves are listed as a radius, or how wide (in inches) to turn a train 90 degrees.

The smallest sectional track for HO that you can use with many cars is 15", which translates to a 30" diameter. The smallest 3 rail O scale track you can use is O27, or a 27" diameter.

What's interesting to me is that I run O72 which looks real big, but if you think of it as twice the size as HO, then you're looking at a 36" radius in O, which translates into an 18" radius in HO, which is not very big. That's one reason why the pilots (the ends on a locomotive) on traditional and standard O move (so the track pickup roller can follow the third rail).

 

[completenewbie]

Thanks for the response Trey - I'm still at odds with this radii disparity between the gauges.

In my mind, the smaller the train the smaller the circle - I'm obviously missing something in my logic.

 

[hamltnblue]

The difference is that the 3 rail doesn't care about the prototype so much as operation. And when you think about it if they didn't make it run on tighter rails the size of the layout would be too large for most. Also if you look at the wheel flanges on the 3 rail they are much larger to grab the rail on the tight turns. Ho tends to have very small flanges.

 

[completenewbie]

The difference is that the 3 rail doesn't care about the prototype so much as operation. And when you think about it if they didn't make it run on tighter rails the size of the layout would be too large for most. Also if you look at the wheel flanges on the 3 rail they are much larger to grab the rail on the tight turns. Ho tends to have very small flanges.

That makes perfect sense - I went to look at the differences and I see what you and Trey are talking about.

Now it kinda makes sense. Which came first O or HO?

If O, then when they designed the HO I wonder why they didn't stay with similar engineering - movable axles for tighter turns etc. Just because they wanted to stay closer to prototype (I'm assuming prototype = real trains)?

Thanks for the response hamltnblue.

 

[ICG/SOU]

O came first. O is considered still as a "toy" train scale, while HO is considered a "model" train scale.

Of course, with standard O (1:48 or so) has some fantastic details and potential for really nice modeling. Look at Laidoffsick's work he does on his cars.

 

[completenewbie]

Back to the HO drawing board - The layout I made above, doesn't work with the track I have and I have a lot of track I just purchased.

I have no idea why when I make a simple circle out of the track then expand it with a few straights nothing lines up. They all seem to be the same length and curvature. Very frustrating.

Then, if I put in a turn out, the whole thing fails to line up where the same number of tracks don't meet on the opposite end.

I must be missing something.

Looks I'll have to settle for a simple oval as it's the only thing that joins together - blah.

My O track lines up just fine - maybe I should just stick with the O.

 

[fast_ian]

Back to the HO drawing board - The layout I made above, doesn't work with the track I have and I have a lot of track I just purchased.

I have no idea why when I make a simple circle out of the track then expand it with a few straights nothing lines up. They all seem to be the same length and curvature. Very frustrating.

I feel your pain! What track are you using? I'm pretty much all flex track now (that can be made to lineup!) but remember getting in a pickle when I mixed up Atlas 18"s and 22"s - They're "almost" the same (until you notice the size on the underside.....)

Cheers,
Ian

 

[completenewbie]

Not sure whether they are 18 or 22 or what but they seem to be the same - I bought a batch of track off ebay (200 + pieces), separated it all out by size, type (stright, curved etc) and alloy (brass and nickel).

For some reason, they just don't line up properly (seems to not join up and if this, it has a lump).

Been at this for hours and no progress lol.

 

[completenewbie]

Still in the planning stage since I have to rethink my layout.

While rummaging through my track and things I found some O gauge plastic joiners - does anyone know what they are used for? They look similar to the steel track joiners, but they are black and plastic.

Hoping to get at least the O layout decided by the end of the week if I can keep my O train from sparking. Lots of problems with sparking on the track and losing power during runs

 

[RW&C]

The plastic joiners are for isolating electrical blocks. If you solder a wire between them, they just hold the tracks together.

 

[completenewbie]

The plastic joiners are for isolating electrical blocks. If you solder a wire between them, they just hold the tracks together.

Thanks for the response RW.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by isolating electrical blocks and soldering wire between them?

Can you elaborate a bit more for a novice please?

 

[ICG/SOU]

Plastic=insulation. Insulation=no current flow.

If you use a plastic joiner (which provides insulation and track alignment), then you won't have current flow on that track. You've electrically isolated one section of track from another. However, if you solder a wire that connects both sections of track together electrically, then those sections of track are no longer isolated from each other, and your plastic joiner then is just serving the purpose of aligning two sections of track.

 

[completenewbie]

Thanks for teh explanation Trey.

Is there a particular reason to do this, or some other situation this is useful?

It doesn't appear to be of value - why would you not want current to run through adjoining tracks and/or why would you want to use the plastic joiners then solder wires?

Not making sense to me as to what use this would be.

 

[DougC]

Completenewbie:

I've read your posts and the responses. The folks on this site are very patient, have considerable knowledge, and are willing to help.

However, given your frustration level (which I understand when dealing with certain issues of this hobby, and I've been model railroading 30+ years), may I suggest that if you're within 100 miles radius of a hobby shop you go visit them and bring along your track? Also they may have customers who would be willing to help you. The hands-on aspect could make a lot of difference. Doesn't hurt to ask.

DougC

 

[completenewbie]

DougC,

The closest hobby store to my location is over 120 miles away as far as I've been able to find.

My apologies if my questions are too basic and I've offended anyone it was not my intention.

As I said in my intro I don't know what I'm doing and have been attempting to learn by reading (Benchwork suggested by member) as many publications as possible as well as the threads in the forum.

Feel free to delete my account and I'll go elsewhere with my questions.

Thank you very much to everyone who responded to my questions - you've all been extremely helpful and I am indebted to you for sharing your knowledge.

Best wishes to you all and goodbye.

 

[hamltnblue]

From the description you gave earlier it sounds like you have a mix of code 83 and Code 100 track. One way to tell is look on the back of each piece. It should say the code number and radius of the curve. Another way is the color of the ties. Code 83 is usually Brown with the Code 100 being Black. The difference is the thickness of the rail with 100 being a larger rail than the 83.

 

[ICG/SOU]

Thanks for teh explanation Trey.

Is there a particular reason to do this, or some other situation this is useful?

It doesn't appear to be of value - why would you not want current to run through adjoining tracks and/or why would you want to use the plastic joiners then solder wires?

Not making sense to me as to what use this would be.

If you're still here:

Stopping current. Well, in my use of DCC in my layout, I set up 4 power districts. That means, there are four areas on my layout supplied with power (and DCC signal through that electricity) via 4 buses (main wires that travel under the layout from command station to power district). Each bus is connected to the track via feeder wires, which are a smaller gauge than the bus, for ease of soldering.

Why did I do this? Well, one reason is because I wanted to add circuit breaker protection to the locomotives. If I have a short, I didn't want it to effect every locomotive on the layout, whether running or not. If I have a short, I can tell which part of the layout it is on (I've labeled my power districts), so I'm not chasing a short down over the entire (albeit small) layout. And, if I understand DCC correctly, a layout with separate power districts means that power goes to where it is needed, instead of the whole layout, resulting in more efficiency.

For the DC guys, having separate power districts (blocks) means that they can control multiple trains via one or two power packs. In the little 4x8 layout I had as a kid, I could run 2 locomotives at once, but not on the same train, and one would always be faster than the other, and the faster locomotive would catch up after a while. With locomotives running in separate blocks, then one isn't stealing power from the other. Also, on my old layout, I could pull a locomotive onto a stub end yard track, flip a toggle switch (which would kill power to that track) so that I could run another train without removing my other loco from the tracks.

I'm not understanding your question on using insulated joiners and soldering "jumper" wires, and if someone is suggesting that for something, I'd like to know why. I do know that people electrically isolate their turnout frogs (to prevent polarity issues), and solder jumpers to the turnout points to make the turnout carry the right polarity of current to the right track. They also solder a feeder wire to power the frog in order to supply power to a passing train, but if I understand correctly, the polarity will be dependent on the route the train is going.

As suggested earlier, a good hobby shop is a good way to get some hands on answers to questions that may be hard to type clearly. I talk to some of the guys there, and they give me tips and tricks to doing stuff. I also read. The only thing I would do different is to have joined a club (if you've got one nearby), so gain some more hands on experience. I didn't join a club thinking I wouldn't have enough time, nor want to deal with club "politics", but I could have avoided some of the pitfalls I've encountered in going my own way.

Having online help, book help, in person help, and club help are all great ways to learn, and the more sources of information, the better.

 

[completenewbie]

Thanks hamltnblue, I've looked at the track and believe all that I am using is 83 - I'm going to check again to make sure and verify.

Trey still here - and thanks

I didn't really have a question about using the insulated joiners other than why one would use them - they must have come with the set because I don't remember purchasing them. At this point, I don't think it really matters because if I can't find a use for something I don't need to know about yet LOL (I have enough to learn at the moment).

Using a separate power center makes sense to me - I notice on my O that I lose power when the train gets to the far end of the track. I read where I have to add a power line to that end to keep the train running optimally.

It also makes a lot of sense in isolating problems - I can imagine as the layout grows find problems becomes exponentially more difficult - something I'm learning now as I bounce back and forth between the O layout and HO layout.

Unfortunately, the closest hobby store that sells train stuff like I said is over 120 miles away - not easy to get to and as far as I know there are no clubs in the area either.

When I lived in Ca., I had a shop close by that helped me quite a bit when I set up the O layout.

I continue to read as many books as possible, subscribed to a model RR magazine as well as reading all the threads on this and another forum I found which for me are by far the most help.

I just purchased a book on wiring for model RR's and hopefully that will explain a few more things for me.

The benchwork book (Jeff wilson) helped to get me focused on the layout and what I needed to make.

I now have my O track up and running in an oval (on the floor LOL) with a few electrical/connection problems I'm trying to isolate.

I'll hopefully be building the first part of my bench this weekend for the main O line.

Thanks again for your patience and help - it has given me insight and information I doubt I would have been able to gain without your assistance.

Hopefully, one day I'll be able to return the favor to you or help someone else who is where I am today.

 

[DoubleDAZ]

As suggested earlier, a good hobby shop is a good way to get some hands on answers to questions that may be hard to type clearly. I talk to some of the guys there, and they give me tips and tricks to doing stuff.

I find them very helpful and the ones I have nearby don't even try to sell me whatever they stock. I do make a point to buy something though. I buy most of my stuff over the internet, but I think the LHS should at least get some of my business if I'm going to use them as a resource.

The only thing I would do different is to have joined a club (if you've got one nearby), so gain some more hands on experience. I didn't join a club thinking I wouldn't have enough time, nor want to deal with club "politics", but I could have avoided some of the pitfalls I've encountered in going my own way.

I second that, but my local club charges $150/yr and they don't seem too interested in talking to non-members (at least the HO guys), even on their open house days. That was a big turnoff. On the other hand, one member runs an LHS and he was great when I talked to him at the shop.

By contrast, I emailed the folks over at Fairplex and they invited me to an open house. When I got there, they let me in the member's section where I could walk all around and throughout the railroad. They wouldn't even let me pay, but I left a donation anyway. If I lived there, I'd be a member, no question about it. As it is, they welcome anyone who wants to volunteer anytime you are in the area. If you've never been, it's well worth a visit, check the website for dates/times, usually the 1st Sunday of the month plus special days.