ChevelleSSguy
Member
That is correct. But they took a big chance by not doing so.
MTH SD70ACe BNSF 9370
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That is correct. But they took a big chance by not doing so.
Hi Eric,
Then you're probably the kind of guy who will like the MTH stuff, and what they shoot for market-wise. They seem to want to appeal to the three-railer in all of us with their O gauge design philosophy, cab chatter, puffing smoke and so forth. Most folks I know personally that have their stuff have it because they couldn't get it anywhere else, or, like you, are more easygoing about prototypical accuracy. They just want to have fun playing with it, and don't care about the huge ditch lights, or other "clinkers" in any given design. That's fine. Live and let live. Thing is, lots of us rivet counters get frustrated because we see a very good model by MTH that could be a great model if there were just a few things different, and MTH has shown that they intend to do it their way and ignore us. I have talked with their people in their booth at various hobby shows, and their opinion of DCC users is that we are a "fringe element" of the hobby. Can you imagine?
One fellow came off as downright arrogant about it. Those of us with DCC face a decision when poresented with anything MTH: accept limited compatibility, or do what HB did above and convert the model to DCC. He did a great job, but that $250.00 diesel is now a $450.00 diesel if you include his time to do the work. So our frustration bleeds through in some of these discussions. They have not done anything I'm really interested in yet, and they have comprimised their designs in the past so the locos can get around 18" radius curves, like the articulated frame on their 4-12-2. All of us hope that they will some day listen to the large pool of prospective customers who are committed to DCC. They'd increase their sales if they did!
Yep! Mr. Fiore it was! He and I once talked about his requirements, but what he wanted was beyond my capabilities. I'd have needed a good mini lathe and milling machine, things still on the want list!
I have a number of sound installations, and your point is well taken. At the club we like to see volumes not exceed 40%. You should hear a model within say 6 feet of where you are standing, and not farther. If you can hear the horn of the guy's loco an aisle over, it's too loud! Still I won't put sound in everything, especially with all those SP vandy tenders! Very few of my brass models have sound, and most of those are GS class with the rectangular tenders, or large vandies with removable floors. Thought you were going to put sound in that Ps-4
Too bad about needing a DCS system to implement the "upgrade". Figures
Yeah, any mechanical work on his loco's does require a lathe and miller. NWSL doesn't cut it with him, as all the new gears would have to be custom cuts.
I have talked with him about doing some painting for him, but I'm not sure he likes my prices since I charge by the color, plus I was trying to talk him out of that CLW Ps-4 of his as part of the payment.
Still really debating about that Ps-4 sound install. I had a Tsunami given to me but I'm still not sure. I may just hang on to it for now and just keep all my locos silent.
Amen to that. I would love to be classified as a "Rivet counter" but I am not that good yet.I deal with the same thing in my business. We ask for better than they are producing and they ignore us. I guess that is why I don't get too frustrated right now in this hobby because it is a " STress " relief for me.
I now have both Digitrax DCC and the MTH COmmander. I like both but I lean toward the DCC Digitrax. When I want to run just all my MTH stuff ,the DCS is the way to go. Not fancy but easy. I sure love the Challenge of DCC but just don't get to study and work with it as much as I would like. I am learning a lot though and I am on my way to being , hopefully , a qualified "Rivet " counter.
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That is correct. But they took a big chance by not doing so.
hamltnblue
Active Member
That is correct. My post was a response to your post 100 where you said it was the only company. No biggie.
hamltnblue
Active Member
In some cases it is true, but the resistors are typically smaller value and much more current is passing. Since the LED's don't drop much voltage and only pass about 9 milliamps of current with a 1k resistor at 9 volts, assuming the led is dropping 3 volts .009 amps times 9 volts is .08 watts of heat. You won't even feel it. If you ever have a doubt, simply touch the resistor under load or place the back end of your finger near the resistor to test for heat.
hamltnblue
Active Member
Interesting approach. I agree that the BEMF would be better. If for no other reason, having less components would be less troublesome. I have to say that the MTH solution does run very smooth though.
hamltnblue
Active Member
I resized using Photoshop elements. The original was 2.9meg in size. When uploading to photobucket the file is reduced smaller. The screen size was kept so that you can still read the text. I probably could have reduced the jpeg quality some more but the file size didn't change much.
hamltnblue
Active Member
New set of Kadee #5's installed and ready to roll
HB, that was a great set of photos for converting an MTH sound system to a Tsunami (there, now the search engine will find it ). I must say that those are the worst looking execution of ditch lights I've ever seen on a high-end locomotive. If they were going to uses a light channel, it seems like they could have used fiber optics and reduced the size to something closer to scale. I guess that's one of the things that aggravates me about MTH engines. Somewhere, there's a part that looks like it should be O scale.
To be precise in terms of goverment bailouts, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai also didn't get on the list, even though they are more American in terms of production than GM.
). I must say that those are the worst looking execution of ditch lights I've ever seen on a high-end locomotive. If they were going to uses a light channel, it seems like they could have used fiber optics and reduced the size to something closer to scale. I guess that's one of the things that aggravates me about MTH engines. Somewhere, there's a part that looks like it should be O scale. To be precise in terms of goverment bailouts, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai also didn't get on the list, even though they are more American in terms of production than GM.
hamltnblue
Active Member
Thanks,
Good point about the light channel. Maybe they couldn't get the right amount of light out of them, or the thicker plastic for the channel is easier for the chinese workers to handle
Good point about the light channel. Maybe they couldn't get the right amount of light out of them, or the thicker plastic for the channel is easier for the chinese workers to handle
hamltnblue
Active Member
Nada on the LED's in the housings. I showed a pic of the ditch light board earlier and the location of the housing. I also wired them up and operated them. They do look like it from the front but they're simply the fiber optic effect using light channels.
You'd sort of figure a guy who disassembled the whole engine would know how the ditch lights work. That brings up a question. Some units I've seen have ditch lights front and rear and some only on the front. Since the FRA rules about ditch lights are pretty clear that any engine crossing a public roadway needs them, are some engines just never run in reverse, even for switching moves?
That brings up a question. Some units I've seen have ditch lights front and rear and some only on the front. Since the FRA rules about ditch lights are pretty clear that any engine crossing a public roadway needs them, are some engines just never run in reverse, even for switching moves?
diburning
AlcoHaulic
Engines with ditch lights on the front end only are usually paired with another engine facing the opposite direction.
In the event that this doesn't happen, the engine without rear ditch lights running long hood forward would be restricted to 30MPH and would have to stop and protect every crossing.
In the event that this doesn't happen, the engine without rear ditch lights running long hood forward would be restricted to 30MPH and would have to stop and protect every crossing.
Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
After reading all the post and peoples opinion with this engine I must say I am glad I am a scenery guy. The MTH is a bit toylike but it is a great engine and product for a model railroader like me. I love scenery as I have said before and I love DCC for the ease. All you guys that get into the nitty gritty details , hats off to ya thats great but it is not my cup of tea. I guess that is why I call my railroad the " ANYERA" railroad. Too many products I like. I enjoy people looking at the layout and enjoying it. I don't really care if something does not look 100% prototypical or not. I want it to be close but I don't sweat the small detail stuff. Maybe when I retire I can do more of that. Right now I this hobby is my stress relief after a long day.
I admit I learn a lot about the details when reading the posts.
I admit I learn a lot about the details when reading the posts.
Hi Eric,
Then you're probably the kind of guy who will like the MTH stuff, and what they shoot for market-wise. They seem to want to appeal to the three-railer in all of us with their O gauge design philosophy, cab chatter, puffing smoke and so forth. Most folks I know personally that have their stuff have it because they couldn't get it anywhere else, or, like you, are more easygoing about prototypical accuracy. They just want to have fun playing with it, and don't care about the huge ditch lights, or other "clinkers" in any given design. That's fine. Live and let live. Thing is, lots of us rivet counters get frustrated because we see a very good model by MTH that could be a great model if there were just a few things different, and MTH has shown that they intend to do it their way and ignore us. I have talked with their people in their booth at various hobby shows, and their opinion of DCC users is that we are a "fringe element" of the hobby. Can you imagine?
One fellow came off as downright arrogant about it. Those of us with DCC face a decision when poresented with anything MTH: accept limited compatibility, or do what HB did above and convert the model to DCC. He did a great job, but that $250.00 diesel is now a $450.00 diesel if you include his time to do the work. So our frustration bleeds through in some of these discussions. They have not done anything I'm really interested in yet, and they have comprimised their designs in the past so the locos can get around 18" radius curves, like the articulated frame on their 4-12-2. All of us hope that they will some day listen to the large pool of prospective customers who are committed to DCC. They'd increase their sales if they did!Alan;
You gotta be talking about Mr. Fiore! Wish I could play trains like he does!
<Snip>
demonstrating a PFM sound unit installed into a US Hobbies L&N O scale Berk for 3 days at a mall show, 9am 'til 10pm in 1974, sound units give me a massive headache after about 10 mins. I will and do install them and program them, but I won't own any. Although being able to actually "play" that whistle was neat!
I believe that Josh had said what they are gonna offer, but it still falls short of full compatibilty. As Hamltnblue has said though, you gotta have a dcs system to install the upgrade. He thinks maybe they'll do it for you if you don't own one. I think they will too, except they'll charge you for it then.
Yep! Mr. Fiore it was! He and I once talked about his requirements, but what he wanted was beyond my capabilities. I'd have needed a good mini lathe and milling machine, things still on the want list!
I have a number of sound installations, and your point is well taken. At the club we like to see volumes not exceed 40%. You should hear a model within say 6 feet of where you are standing, and not farther. If you can hear the horn of the guy's loco an aisle over, it's too loud! Still I won't put sound in everything, especially with all those SP vandy tenders! Very few of my brass models have sound, and most of those are GS class with the rectangular tenders, or large vandies with removable floors. Thought you were going to put sound in that Ps-4
Too bad about needing a DCS system to implement the "upgrade". Figures
Cjcrescent
Master Mechanic
Yep! Mr. Fiore it was! He and I once talked about his requirements, but what he wanted was beyond my capabilities. I'd have needed a good mini lathe and milling machine, things still on the want list!
Thought you were going to put sound in that Ps-4
Yeah, any mechanical work on his loco's does require a lathe and miller. NWSL doesn't cut it with him, as all the new gears would have to be custom cuts.
I have talked with him about doing some painting for him, but I'm not sure he likes my prices since I charge by the color, plus I was trying to talk him out of that CLW Ps-4 of his as part of the payment.
Still really debating about that Ps-4 sound install. I had a Tsunami given to me but I'm still not sure. I may just hang on to it for now and just keep all my locos silent.
Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
Amen to that. I would love to be classified as a "Rivet counter" but I am not that good yet.I deal with the same thing in my business. We ask for better than they are producing and they ignore us. I guess that is why I don't get too frustrated right now in this hobby because it is a " STress " relief for me.
I now have both Digitrax DCC and the MTH COmmander. I like both but I lean toward the DCC Digitrax. When I want to run just all my MTH stuff ,the DCS is the way to go. Not fancy but easy. I sure love the Challenge of DCC but just don't get to study and work with it as much as I would like. I am learning a lot though and I am on my way to being , hopefully , a qualified "Rivet " counter.
ChevelleSSguy
Member
From the looks of those pictures. It looks like all the electricals are attached by connectors you just disconnect. Even if its not that simple. There is still wires operating the lights, the trucks, motor etc. So with that said, it would be cool if someone made a conversion kit to turn one of these MTH locos to standard DCC.
Of course Mike would probably have issues with that and off to court it goes.
Of course Mike would probably have issues with that and off to court it goes.
hamltnblue
Active Member
That's correct. There's a single plug with about 30 pins on it. Extending from there are about 10 or more so individual plugs, all color coded to their function. Very professionally done and well thought out. Just a shame it's DCS. The ony thing that wouldn't work with the plugs would be the headlight/number board and the ditchlight board. Those have the polarity reverse of the norm in DCC.
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Tiny Drill Bits
Living in Florida is has been almost impossible to find a SINGLE drill bit smaller than size 60; I always had to order them Online. The problem when ordered single small bit us usually the "shipping charges." It's usually about $2.50 per bit, with a substantial shipping charge applied.
When I find a business that give me a good deal and doesn't OVERCHARGE me for shipping, in the name of LOW product prices, I want to spread the word. I found such an Online business today, www.widgetsupply.com. They sold the size drills I needed, 66 & 67 in lots of 10 for $2.29 per pack! When I saw this, I ordered 10 of each. I naturally figured when I open the "shipping choices" I was going to get hammered. What a NICE surprise, S&H = $2.49!! Total order for twenty bits, delivered to my DOOR, $7.07.
I haven't had the time to see what else this website sells, but if they have "tiny drill bits," they MUST have other goodies Model Railroaders would be interested in.
Are you ready for the BIGGEST shocker of all. I placed this order around 2 pm, I got a shipping email that it was in the Post Office's hands at 5PM!!
Living in Florida is has been almost impossible to find a SINGLE drill bit smaller than size 60; I always had to order them Online. The problem when ordered single small bit us usually the "shipping charges." It's usually about $2.50 per bit, with a substantial shipping charge applied.
When I find a business that give me a good deal and doesn't OVERCHARGE me for shipping, in the name of LOW product prices, I want to spread the word. I found such an Online business today, www.widgetsupply.com. They sold the size drills I needed, 66 & 67 in lots of 10 for $2.29 per pack! When I saw this, I ordered 10 of each. I naturally figured when I open the "shipping choices" I was going to get hammered. What a NICE surprise, S&H = $2.49!! Total order for twenty bits, delivered to my DOOR, $7.07.
I haven't had the time to see what else this website sells, but if they have "tiny drill bits," they MUST have other goodies Model Railroaders would be interested in.
Are you ready for the BIGGEST shocker of all. I placed this order around 2 pm, I got a shipping email that it was in the Post Office's hands at 5PM!!
Last edited by a moderator:
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