Modified Central Midland - Test Run
- Thread starter Ericsauto
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What kind of steamers are you running on those 3% grades? Have you tried adding traction tires, or maybe double-heading? Also, how many freight cars and how heavy are they? I have some 2-10-2's I kitbashed from Mantua Mikes many moons ago. I re-motored them with 22mm dia. coreless motors, and have all center drivers blind and up off the rails (shimmed the axels), and they will just about haul the track up behind them on 3 to 3.25% grades. NO traction tires, however. All the weight is on the end drivers, and the zamack bodies help a lot. I've also got a couple of light articulateds I made up from 0-6-0 Mantuas, with just the rear set of drivers powered. These do have a traction tire on one wheel. I double-head them with a train of ore cars.
Hope this helps.
It sounds like you know how to handle the problem but I honestly do not know how to do what you have done. I would love to learn it but don't know where to start. I have a few 4-6-4 hudson and some k-4 steams . They all do pretty good except for the pilots jumping off track. I have used Bullfrog snot and it does work but it is tedious to put on a steam loco. I double head some of my diesels and they have no problems. I don't know how to shim the axles but it makes perfect sense. I think redoing this part of the layout will be better. I got it a little large last time and I want to make the layout a tad bit smaller. If it does not work this time I burn it and start over.
Eric,
My steam locomotives are very sensitive to track quality. If you are having derailments, I'd guess they are typically in the same place and the culprits on my layout are kinks and uneven roadbed. Diesels are MUCH more tolerant of trackwork issues, especially 4 axle units.
Good luck sorting it out.
Joe
Nope, locos don't like grades greater than 2%. I learned the hard way a 4% grade was too steep, so I tore the layout apart and fanagled in 3% grades. Nope, that didn't work either, so I tore all that out and scrapped the whole layout idea and had to start over. Had to.
Now I do not do anything over a 2% grade, period. It's easier on me AND my locos!!
________
FIX PS3
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Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
You know I have been going crazy trying to get the layout just the way I want. I love the grades for looks but they drive you crazy trying to run trains. I think I am going to tear down a big portion that I added to this layout design and redo it again. I have some ideas that would eliminate most of the grades. Dang layout drives me nuts but I guess you have to be happy because these layouts should last a long time. 
I love steam engines and they just don't do well on 3% or more grades. So it is back to the drawing board again. I will post some pictures of what I am tearing down and rebuilding. This will be my winter project again. After that , maybe I can get to doing the scenery. I guess this is what makes this hobby fun. ( Expensive too 
) I honestly think this new idea will be the right one. We will see.
I love steam engines and they just don't do well on 3% or more grades. So it is back to the drawing board again. I will post some pictures of what I am tearing down and rebuilding. This will be my winter project again. After that , maybe I can get to doing the scenery. I guess this is what makes this hobby fun. ( Expensive too ) I honestly think this new idea will be the right one. We will see.Central Midland
Wow, thats a big step!
Wayne
You know I have been going crazy trying to get the layout just the way I want. I love the grades for looks but they drive you crazy trying to run trains. I think I am going to tear down a big portion that I added to this layout design and redo it again. I have some ideas that would eliminate most of the grades. Dang layout drives me nuts but I guess you have to be happy because these layouts should last a long time.
Wow, thats a big step!
Wayne
trailrider
Well-Known Member
You know I have been going crazy trying to get the layout just the way I want. I love the grades for looks but they drive you crazy trying to run trains. I think I am going to tear down a big portion that I added to this layout design and redo it again. I have some ideas that would eliminate most of the grades. Dang layout drives me nuts but I guess you have to be happy because these layouts should last a long time.
What kind of steamers are you running on those 3% grades? Have you tried adding traction tires, or maybe double-heading? Also, how many freight cars and how heavy are they? I have some 2-10-2's I kitbashed from Mantua Mikes many moons ago. I re-motored them with 22mm dia. coreless motors, and have all center drivers blind and up off the rails (shimmed the axels), and they will just about haul the track up behind them on 3 to 3.25% grades. NO traction tires, however. All the weight is on the end drivers, and the zamack bodies help a lot. I've also got a couple of light articulateds I made up from 0-6-0 Mantuas, with just the rear set of drivers powered. These do have a traction tire on one wheel. I double-head them with a train of ore cars.
Hope this helps.
Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
It sounds like you know how to handle the problem but I honestly do not know how to do what you have done. I would love to learn it but don't know where to start. I have a few 4-6-4 hudson and some k-4 steams . They all do pretty good except for the pilots jumping off track. I have used Bullfrog snot and it does work but it is tedious to put on a steam loco. I double head some of my diesels and they have no problems. I don't know how to shim the axles but it makes perfect sense. I think redoing this part of the layout will be better. I got it a little large last time and I want to make the layout a tad bit smaller. If it does not work this time I burn it and start over.
Midland Central - Model Railroad 101
Eric,
I've been an active model railroader since 2005. My first layout was a double tracked Midland Central. After a year working on it, I abandoned it for two fundamental reasons: too much track and not enough room for scenery and the spaghetti effect. My second layout only lasted a year due to the complexities I encountered with a double decked layout that was only a foot between levels. My current layout is much simpler and essentially on one level. 
Like you I learned an amazing amount of stuff working on those two layouts. I'm three years on my third and am quite content with its design. Good luck on yours! (I enjoyed the pictures very much. Would love to see your actual track plan too!)
Joe Daddy
My Midland Central pictures
Eric,
I've been an active model railroader since 2005. My first layout was a double tracked Midland Central. After a year working on it, I abandoned it for two fundamental reasons: too much track and not enough room for scenery and the spaghetti effect.
My second layout only lasted a year due to the complexities I encountered with a double decked layout that was only a foot between levels. My current layout is much simpler and essentially on one level. Like you I learned an amazing amount of stuff working on those two layouts. I'm three years on my third and am quite content with its design. Good luck on yours! (I enjoyed the pictures very much. Would love to see your actual track plan too!)
Joe Daddy
My Midland Central pictures
It sounds like you know how to handle the problem but I honestly do not know how to do what you have done. I would love to learn it but don't know where to start. I have a few 4-6-4 hudson and some k-4 steams . They all do pretty good except for the pilots jumping off track. -- SNIP --
Eric,
My steam locomotives are very sensitive to track quality. If you are having derailments, I'd guess they are typically in the same place and the culprits on my layout are kinks and uneven roadbed. Diesels are MUCH more tolerant of trackwork issues, especially 4 axle units.
Good luck sorting it out.
Joe
Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
Hi Joe. I read your blog a lot before I built this. Lot of track and yes a bit spaghetti effect. I just got done tearing a big portion of it down tonight .
I am keeping the original design and removing what I added on. I have a good idea now to keep it pretty much low grades and may get some more scenery out of it.Nothing fancy this time just some extended runs off the track plan. My locos don't derail at the same place all the time. It depends on the load you are pulling , brand of train , etc. The rest of the original track plan does not give me much problems. I think I have the track pretty good there. I am confident that I can get this thing going good.I appreciate your comments it sure gives me hope to make the layout a success.
.I am keeping the original design and removing what I added on. I have a good idea now to keep it pretty much low grades and may get some more scenery out of it.Nothing fancy this time just some extended runs off the track plan. My locos don't derail at the same place all the time. It depends on the load you are pulling , brand of train , etc. The rest of the original track plan does not give me much problems. I think I have the track pretty good there. I am confident that I can get this thing going good.I appreciate your comments it sure gives me hope to make the layout a success.
You know I have been going crazy trying to get the layout just the way I want. I love the grades for looks but they drive you crazy trying to run trains. I think I am going to tear down a big portion that I added to this layout design and redo it again. I have some ideas that would eliminate most of the grades. Dang layout drives me nuts but I guess you have to be happy because these layouts should last a long time.
Nope, locos don't like grades greater than 2%. I learned the hard way a 4% grade was too steep, so I tore the layout apart and fanagled in 3% grades. Nope, that didn't work either, so I tore all that out and scrapped the whole layout idea and had to start over. Had to.
Now I do not do anything over a 2% grade, period. It's easier on me AND my locos!!
________
FIX PS3
Last edited by a moderator:
trailrider
Well-Known Member
Shimming the axles of Mantua steam locos involves taking some very thin (maybe .010 - .015" thick brass and cutting some thin strips the width of the bottom of the axle slots in the frame. Because the older unit used a bronze bearing, which has a small hole, matching a stud at the bottom of the slot in the frame, you had to punch a small hole in the shim before replacing the axle bearing in the slot. This was only done on the front and rear axle slots. A strip of brass of similar thickness, but long enough to stretch from just behind the front axle bushing to just in front of the rear axle bushing. This goes over the middle axles, under the cover plate. You have to make holes in the long shim to allow the cover plate screws to go through. The long shim holds the middle axles (blind drivers) up off the top of the rails, while the shims under the first and last axle bearings keeps the flanged drivers a bit lower than the blind ones. Because the driving rods on the Mantuas are multiple-piece, you don't have to worry about the difference in height of the drivers. Unless you get right down on the level of the top of the rails with a good light behind the blind drivers you can't see they don't touch the rails. The reason for doing this is so the blind drivers don't catch on the tops of the rails coming out of a sharp curve.
Lead trucks may have to have the inside of the cylinders ground away at the front and rear corners. Fours wheel lead trucks may have to have the pivot slots lengthened to permit enough swing, and you might have to extend the pilot a bit. Rear trucks may need to have the frames trimmed a bit just back of the pivot screw.
Although it has been awhile, I've done this with 2-8-2's stretched to 2-10-2 and 2-10-4's.
Green board all the way!
Lead trucks may have to have the inside of the cylinders ground away at the front and rear corners. Fours wheel lead trucks may have to have the pivot slots lengthened to permit enough swing, and you might have to extend the pilot a bit. Rear trucks may need to have the frames trimmed a bit just back of the pivot screw.
Although it has been awhile, I've done this with 2-8-2's stretched to 2-10-2 and 2-10-4's.
Green board all the way!
Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
Okay as promised I am posting some pictures. But first I wanted to let you all know I worked about ten hours on this this weekend. I thought I would have to tear down and rebuild the benchwork on the section I was going to change. After stripping the track and scenery I realized I could save a lot of time and money keep the bench work. I did make the layout smaller by about 3 feet on the width and 1 foot on the depth. I really think this design will work great. I t will have only one 2.75 % grade to deal with and the max grade now will be only 2%. I can live with this. One nice thing is the way I did the bridges , the trains will come right by you now . A neat thing for the kids to see . I took these with my Iphone ( sorry too lazy to get the big camera) It looks a little cluttered but if you look at the old Photos you can see the changes. More to come when I get the rest built.
My photo bucket account- http://s806.photobucke[IMG][/IMG].com/home/ericsauto/index
My photo bucket account- http://s806.photobucke[IMG][/IMG].com/home/ericsauto/index
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trailrider
Well-Known Member
Outstanding! Now you can come over and help this old man wire his layout!
Green board all the way!
Green board all the way!
Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
Just finished the mainlines tonight and was able to test run. Wow this layout runs so much better with the smaller grades.
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I still have to work on the yard redesign but that will have to be another night. I want to make sure my mainlines are running smoothly. More to come
I still have to work on the yard redesign but that will have to be another night. I want to make sure my mainlines are running smoothly. More to come
waredbear
Member
Wow!!!
Eric...I have been away from the forums awhile and was following your layout progress last year with amazement. I stumbled upon the thread tonight and what can I say...WOW
...the changes the layout has gone through at your hands. I am curious to see how it is today. Any chance of getting updated pictures. I looked at photobucket but it was down for maintenance. Keep up the good work.
Eric...I have been away from the forums awhile and was following your layout progress last year with amazement. I stumbled upon the thread tonight and what can I say...WOW
...the changes the layout has gone through at your hands. I am curious to see how it is today. Any chance of getting updated pictures. I looked at photobucket but it was down for maintenance. Keep up the good work.
Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
Thanks Reid. ,
I will try to update them this week sometime. It has gone through a lot of changes but not as much as I would have liked. Had a lot going on this past winter and Modelrailroading has been not as much as I wanted. Mainly I have been concentrating on track and wiring but I have now started ( Very little ) scenery. I hope to get a lot of foam work done these next few months. Thanks for looking.
I will try to update them this week sometime. It has gone through a lot of changes but not as much as I would have liked. Had a lot going on this past winter and Modelrailroading has been not as much as I wanted. Mainly I have been concentrating on track and wiring but I have now started ( Very little ) scenery. I hope to get a lot of foam work done these next few months. Thanks for looking.
Ericsauto
Well-Known Member
Photo bucket is not working tonight so try this link to my Gallery.
http://gallery.me.com/pohlmans#100217
Hopefully this works. When Photo bucket comes back up I will post some pictures
PS - This is the last time I change this design. I am happy with this and tired of changing it. It is a pretty good design now.
http://gallery.me.com/pohlmans#100217
Hopefully this works. When Photo bucket comes back up I will post some pictures
PS - This is the last time I change this design. I am happy with this and tired of changing it. It is a pretty good design now.
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