Model River - In Over My Head

[jwbrock]

Well, I started building my first train layout and making scenery, and I think I'm in over my head - partially at least because I got started before I fully researched the entire process. I made a decent enough base of a mountain with sculptamold and got a few things painted, then I realized my planned water feature has some major issues.

What I'm working with is 2 inch foam on a 1/8 plywood base. I cut all the way down to the plywood to make a base and filled and shaped the river with sculptamold - then painted it an earth color as you'll see in the pictures. Now that I'm finally doing my homework on the realistic water, I'm seeing that I actually should be having a flat surface and pouring it rather thin, with some sort of "water" paint basecoat on the flat bottom to simulate depth (rather than earth ground color).

Is there any way to salvage my current setup and make this thing right? Fortunately I hadn't got to the point of adding ballast, rock, or other waterside features. One thing of note, is that approx. 2 inches is way too deep for my riverbanks - I was going for a small waterfall between the two tunnels, a mountain stream that passes under a bridge and then a lake. One hitch is the planned river bridge needs some space beneath it, so I probably do need to go deeper than I would have originally wanted so there is actually some room beneath it - so it may have to be about the current depth after all.

Any suggestions or advice on how to salvage my setup and how to correctly prepare for the scenic water would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. - The painting of the mountain, rocks, etc are still a work in progress - some parts done but I ran out of paint to finish.

 

[migalyto]

First of all, welcome to the group!

You have a few options here. First would be to do a couple of thin pours over the base you already have. I have not used the Realistic Water product. I use Enviro-tex lite which I assume is very similar. Woodland Scenics is known to take commercially available products, slap their name on it, repackage it and charge 3X more. It should be self leveling and several thin pours should still look good and give you the depth your looking for.

Second would be to skip the water feature all together and just make it a depression/low lying area with vegetation and you could still use your bridge scene.

Third would be to break that area out till you got your flat bottom and start over and patch in what was damaged that you want to keep.

Another would be to smooth your lake bottom with plaster layers till it became a flat surface, not sure you need it if a rocky river bottom is what your going for.

I would try the first option myself. Worst case if it don't come out like you want, re-evaluate and try something different.

As you progress in this hobby, you will find that most everything is fixable!

 

[Marlin39]

Watch these videos to save what you started.

 

[KB02]

First of all, welcome to the group!

You have a few options here. First would be to do a couple of thin pours over the base you already have. I have not used the Realistic Water product. I use Enviro-tex lite which I assume is very similar. Woodland Scenics is known to take commercially available products, slap their name on it, repackage it and charge 3X more. It should be self leveling and several thin pours should still look good and give you the depth your looking for.

Second would be to skip the water feature all together and just make it a depression/low lying area with vegetation and you could still use your bridge scene.

Third would be to break that area out till you got your flat bottom and start over and patch in what was damaged that you want to keep.

Another would be to smooth your lake bottom with plaster layers till it became a flat surface, not sure you need it if a rocky river bottom is what your going for.

I would try the first option myself. Worst case if it don't come out like you want, re-evaluate and try something different.

As you progress in this hobby, you will find that most everything is fixable!

+1 Lots of options here. And in my opinion, for what that's worth, you've got a great base to forge ahead with.

I agree with Migalyto, that Eniro-tex lite is the way to go. Available at most hardware stores. it's just a regular 2 part clear epoxy. If it were me, I would simply re-paint the "watery" area the way you would expect it to look filled with water (the deeper the water, the darker the color, etc.), and do a few pours of epoxy.

One of the first water features I ever built on my layout was not quite as level as I thought it was and all the expoy self-leveled to one side forcing my to do a second pour. What originally started as a setback turned into a good thing. Not only did it give the river a better feel of depth, but in between pours I painted a couple of fish swimming against the tide. Now when the light hits the fish, not only are they under water, but they have a shadow underneath them.

A tip on working with epoxy if you're doing a deep pour: Heat the resin. The warner it is the easier it will flow (so be careful to avoid leaks in your pouring area) which will allow all the bubbles that float to the top to float much easier so they avoid getting stuck forever in your "water."

 

[jwbrock]

+1 Lots of options here. And in my opinion, for what that's worth, you've got a great base to forge ahead with.

I agree with Migalyto, that Eniro-tex lite is the way to go. Available at most hardware stores. it's just a regular 2 part clear epoxy. If it were me, I would simply re-paint the "watery" area the way you would expect it to look filled with water (the deeper the water, the darker the color, etc.), and do a few pours of epoxy.

One of the first water features I ever built on my layout was not quite as level as I thought it was and all the expoy self-leveled to one side forcing my to do a second pour. What originally started as a setback turned into a good thing. Not only did it give the river a better feel of depth, but in between pours I painted a couple of fish swimming against the tide. Now when the light hits the fish, not only are they under water, but they have a shadow underneath them.

A tip on working with epoxy if you're doing a deep pour: Heat the resin. The warner it is the easier it will flow (so be careful to avoid leaks in your pouring area) which will allow all the bubbles that float to the top to float much easier so they avoid getting stuck forever in your "water."

Thanks for the tips. The fish painting sounds pretty cool. A few questions:

1. Do you tint or color the resin at all, or is all the color done by painting the base? If its just painting the base, how to you make sure the "water" level is actually "level" around the perimeter of the water area?

2. What colors do you recommend? I'm trying to stick with cheaper, craft-store paints where possible because of the cost and distance to dedicated hobby stores. I've tried a few different mixes, but it usually comes out weird or too dark. Specifically, I'm trying to model a Blueridge Mountain style river - so not quite blue, but I don't want it to look too muddy.

3. You mentioned heating the resin - what method do you generally use?

 

[KB02]

1.) Tinting the resin works as does just painting the surface. I have done both. I think painting the surface is a better option as you have time to go back, change your mind, change the colors, blend, adjust, blah, blah, blah, and get it just right before you apply the resin. Where as with tinting the resin, you pretty much get one shot and if you don't like it... well... make that choice before you pour.

2.) Color: Standard water color, if you ask any 3rd grader, is blue. If you're not modelling the Caribbean reports they show in the travel brochures, I challenge you to find any blue water. Rivers and streams around here vary in color from clear as heck in the middle of summer to milky brown after a storm. And that's just in one day!! Typically, rivers have a blueish-green hue that gets darker as the river gets deeper. Swamps and ponds tend to start dark and stay there. Just do some web browsing looking for pictures that match the scene you're trying to make and see what looks "right" to you.
As for paint choice, all I use are the cheap acrylics you can by at Walmart.

3.) heat the resin by letting the jars sit in warm/hot water before mixing them together.

You're rocks are looking great!!

 

[Marlin39]

Here's a couple more good ones for you to watch. This guy is good.

 

[jwbrock]

Here's a couple more good ones for you to watch. This guy is good.

Wow! That is pretty cool. I think my design has already got me locked into resin, but for a flat surface lake, that is pretty amazing results. I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future.

 

[migalyto]

As for some of your questions:

I used cheap craft paint for the bottom. Black in the center to simulate depth and shaded lighter brown with the black towards the bank.

Made my banks with scultamold as you did.

Then did the Envirotex lite epoxy pour over that. I used a couple small drops of blue in the epoxy mix. Use sparingly, a little goes a long way.

I have never heard of heating the resin first, not that it couldn't work, I didn't do it. It will form bubbles on top but blow over them with your breath thru a drinking straw. The carbon dioxide will make those bubbles disappear to a flat glossy surface and this is what your left with once it cures.

As you can see it shows tremendous depth and gives off a water like reflection. I never stippled waves on this as this was my N scale layout and it went in the dumpster when I switched to HO scale.

 

[PNKFLOYD]

You have been given some really good advice here.

Remember that deep water is darker and shallow water is lighter.

If this is your first attempt at pouring resin water, try to pour only about 1/8 inch at a time.

MAKE SURE THE AREA IS COMPLETELY SEALED. A quick coat of varnish will help seal the area.
A pinhole leak will give you a pile of resin on the floor....and it is hard to remove.

Add debris ( logs or rocks) along the shore line before pouring if desired. The resin will creep along the edges so boats, docks, etc. should be glued in place.
Errors will happen, so do not hurry the process.
Good luck!

 

[jwbrock]

As for some of your questions:

I used cheap craft paint for the bottom. Black in the center to simulate depth and shaded lighter brown with the black towards the bank.

View attachment 253589

Made my banks with scultamold as you did.

View attachment 253590

Then did the Envirotex lite epoxy pour over that. I used a couple small drops of blue in the epoxy mix. Use sparingly, a little goes a long way.

I have never heard of heating the resin first, not that it couldn't work, I didn't do it. It will form bubbles on top but blow over them with your breath thru a drinking straw. The carbon dioxide will make those bubbles disappear to a flat glossy surface and this is what your left with once it cures.

As you can see it shows tremendous depth and gives off a water like reflection. I never stippled waves on this as this was my N scale layout and it went in the dumpster when I switched to HO scale.

View attachment 253591

View attachment 253592

Nice. Really like the way the colors came out here. The reflection is great.