Model Railroading and New Technology

[scoobydo]

When will model railroading get out of the stone ages and start using today's technology?
We should be using ipad's and laptops as our controllers by now, but instead we have all these systems and controllers that remind me of 1980's style cell phones.
With devices like the IPad, and Android touch devices this hobby (the controller end of it) should be far more advanced that it is.
Even products like JMRI and CTI are nowhere near what they should be and companies that do have PC software are just blah. Almost as if it where an afterthought.
MRC's Prodigy interface is the only one that looks promising, but still should be more.
I know the average age of the typical model railroader is very high. However, I think in the long run they will benefit.
I was at work the other day and one of my younger workers (19 yo) asked if I knew a certain band. My response was, "Oh, I think I had their tape when I was younger". He literally looked at me all puzzled and said "whats a tape?".
We literally live in an age where young people do not know what Cassette or VHS Tapes are!!!
Gentleman, if this hobby is to survive, it needs to evolve much faster than it is.
Track interface devices should be the size of a deck of cards and all controlling and programming done on the PC/MAC or hell, even your cell phone!!
The option SHOULD be a handheld controller unit, not the other way around.

We should be able to download an app and be able to control & change settings and CV's without having to know anything but how to punch in a number or slide a digital dial up or down.

Bring on the IPad/Android Railroading App!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I had to vent.

 

[Selector]

To take the discussion immediately to a reductio ad absurdum, we needn't really actually have a layout and real scale analog models at all. That way, we wouldn't need the rails, power supply, maintenance, cleaning, weathering....who wants to make 100 trees of various types and sizes when a quick keystroke or two will have your virtual layout heavily festooned?

With virtual modelling and CAD design and such, no one actually needs to set foot in a hobby shop, a workshop, or even have specialized tools. Just think, no more Opti-Visor and Bright Boy! Who would need an NMRA track gauge for one's scale? Kaydee couplers would be a thing of the past, let along coupler height gauges.

I am all for the Android style of playing with trains.

Okay [...head falls to my chest...] I am being facetious.

 

[scoobydo]

To take the discussion immediately to a reductio ad absurdum, we needn't really actually have a layout and real scale analog models at all. That way, we wouldn't need the rails, power supply, maintenance, cleaning, weathering....who wants to make 100 trees of various types and sizes when a quick keystroke or two will have your virtual layout heavily festooned?

With virtual modelling and CAD design and such, no one actually needs to set foot in a hobby shop, a workshop, or even have specialized tools. Just think, no more Opti-Visor and Bright Boy! Who would need an NMRA track gauge for one's scale? Kaydee couplers would be a thing of the past, let along coupler height gauges.

I am all for the Android style of playing with trains.

Okay [...head falls to my chest...] I am being facetious.

This has nothing to do with the actual hobby of model railroading. As a matter of fact, nothing would change from the aspect of the locos, decoders and layout.
My post has everything to do with what you hold in your hand to control your layout.
One can stick with their "Zenith" Remote if they wish, but I want something a little more advanced and with the times.

 

[skryking]

so setup jmri on a computer, connect it to which ever dcc command station you prefer and download the free app for your iphone or android device as you wish... It's all out there and except for the dcc interface mostly free.

 

[scoobydo]

so setup jmri on a computer, connect it to which ever dcc command station you prefer and download the free app for your iphone or android device as you wish... It's all out there and except for the dcc interface mostly free.

I have done that. I was pointing out that those that are out there are very sub-par from what they should be.
We are slowly getting there, my point is that we are SLOWLY getting there.
I would bet that if there were some Apple programmers in Cupertino CA out there that were hardcore model railroad enthusiasts, this hobby would leap forward about 10 years. (the controller end of the hobby)

 

[skryking]

jmri is an open source project, got an itch to make it better whip out a text editor and start banging away on the code..

 

[diburning]

I have done that. I was pointing out that those that are out there are very sub-par from what they should be.
We are slowly getting there, my point is that we are SLOWLY getting there.
I would bet that if there were some Apple programmers in Cupertino CA out there that were hardcore model railroad enthusiasts, this hobby would leap forward about 10 years. (the controller end of the hobby)

Or Google since they want all of their employees to be innovative.

 

[frog]

The first HO scale layout I ever saw ran on batteries.

IMO the hobby has come a long way.

My layout is powered by Tech 2 and 3 power units and my tracks are blocked. I am highly pleased but for anyone else the sky is the limit.

 

[Airslide]

I was at work the other day and one of my younger workers (19 yo) asked if I knew a certain band. My response was, "Oh, I think I had their tape when I was younger". He literally looked at me all puzzled and said "whats a tape?".
We literally live in an age where young people do not know what Cassette or VHS Tapes are!!!

this is too funny - just today a had a similar conversation with a young person at work - about records...im betting the puzzled look she had is probably the same one your worker had.

to the original post tho - @ 3:28 in this video, jlwii controls his trans with his ipad.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jlwii2000#p/a/u/0/rQupgJr_DwY

im not versed enough in controls to know if this is 'not advanced enough' but i find it hard to believe an app cannot be created or is not already out there to do what you desire. if not im sure there are tech nerds with enough savy in the model rr community to create an app for it. maybe not for a ipad or phone, but definitly for a PC. if it is not out there, im sure someone is working on it as we speak. dont look for the steve jobs and bill gates of the world to create one though. model railroaders represent far less than 1% of the adult population -and probably even smaller fraction of that would use an 'app' on an ipad to have full control of their trains.

 

[scoobydo]

this is too funny - just today a had a similar conversation with a young person at work - about records...im betting the puzzled look she had is probably the same one your worker had.

to the original post tho - @ 3:28 in this video, jlwii controls his trans with his ipad.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jlwii2000#p/a/u/0/rQupgJr_DwY

im not versed enough in controls to know if this is 'not advanced enough' but i find it hard to believe an app cannot be created or is not already out there to do what you desire. if not im sure there are tech nerds with enough savy in the model rr community to create an app for it. maybe not for a ipad or phone, but definitly for a PC. if it is not out there, im sure someone is working on it as we speak. dont look for the steve jobs and bill gates of the world to create one though. model railroaders represent far less than 1% of the adult population -and probably even smaller fraction of that would use an 'app' on an ipad to have full control of their trains.

He's using the MRC Prodigy Advanced software, which I mentioned was the best out their currently.
My comments are not that they are NOT out there. As with MRC, you can see that it is clearly out there. My comments are to the point that they are not where they should be. (meaning farther developed)
Your point about the population is a good one and probably true.
Oh, well. Back to my Zenith remote for now.
Thanks for the comments guys.

 

[CBCNSfan]

Good Topic for discussion
Well being old, eyesight not what it used to be, hearing mostly gone, hands and finger dexterity far from what it used to be, I prefer to stay with what I understand and know what I can do or accomplish. My big step into the new technology will be DCC and that's about it (sound? I doubt I'd be able to hear it). Anything else I'll invent,(as required, I do that on a needed to do basis) copy other peoples ideas that they are kind enough to share. The only enemy I have now is time, there just isn't enough of it.
Now, for the younger generation with Ipads and whatever, that's fine and when there is enough demand for the technology I'm sure some enterprising company will deliver an updated satisfactory device to communicate with the layout. This is sure to happen when enough of us old fogies die off and are replaced with a younger generation.
Just my rambling on, old guys are allowed to do that
Cheers
Willis

 

[scoobydo]

Good Topic for discussion
Well being old, eyesight not what it used to be, hearing mostly gone, hands and finger dexterity far from what it used to be, I prefer to stay with what I understand and know what I can do or accomplish. My big step into the new technology will be DCC and that's about it (sound? I doubt I'd be able to hear it). Anything else I'll invent,(as required, I do that on a needed to do basis) copy other peoples ideas that they are kind enough to share. The only enemy I have now is time, there just isn't enough of it.
Now, for the younger generation with Ipads and whatever, that's fine and when there is enough demand for the technology I'm sure some enterprising company will deliver an updated satisfactory device to communicate with the layout. This is sure to happen when enough of us old fogies die off and are replaced with a younger generation.
Just my rambling on, old guys are allowed to do that
Cheers
Willis

Great Comment, thanks Willis.
You make a lot of interesting points.

 

[scoobydo]

I was browsing around an online dealer and I saw this under throttles.
http://www.ringengineering.com/
Its called RailPro. Its a wireless controller with a touch screen.
Now this has real promise as far as premise.
Too bad it will fail.
The unit requires using a $99 proprietary decoder for each train.
From what I can tell it uses its own sounds.
Even if this plugged into existing sound decoders (like a soundtraxx) it would still be horribly expensive to run. ($99 for the soundtraxx and another $99 for the module!!)
If it worked with existing decoders and did not require a module, then I think it would be fun to try.

 

[Rotorranch]

Heck, I don't even have a cell phone, let alone an iPad! DCC is confusing enough to me... after over 40 years, I've just finally figured out how to run mutiple trains with my MRRC Twin Pak and block layout.

With my Digitrax, after a little over 15 years, I can set the address on a new decoder, (refering to the user manual), and run the trains. Setting parameters on DCC... well I never change them. They stay at default. I can turn the lights on and off, blow the whistle/horn, and ring the bell. What more do I need?

Why would I need a cell phone to run trains? So I can run them from 1,500 miles away? Heck, I can barely see them from 15 feet away! Who's gonna fix 'em when I derail or crash one? Will I need an app for that too?

Give me "hands on" control.

I guess the young'uns might want to run thier trains from an iPad or such, but I'm just fine with what I have.

As mentioned above, why not just go virtual if you want all that. I'm sure there's an app for that!

Rotor (still livin in the dark ages)

 

[scoobydo]

Why would I need a cell phone to run trains? So I can run them from 1,500 miles away? Heck, I can barely see them from 15 feet away! Who's gonna fix 'em when I derail or crash one? Will I need an app for that too?

As mentioned above, why not just go virtual if you want all that. I'm sure there's an app for that!

Your completely missing the point Rotorranch. Phones nowadays are not phones. They are mini computers in which you can make calls.
Heck, I rarely use mine for calls. Mostly e-mail and running applications, just like a computer.
What I meant from running it from your phone is that you can use an iphone or android enabled device like a Droid phone to open an application to throttle your trains. It is not meant to "dial" your track so you can run it from far away. You still have to be within range of the reciever.

Going Virtual has nothing to do with this thread. I love working on the trains and paying attention to detail and working on layouts. You will never take away the hands on approach to this hobby.
This thread is simply about control or your "throttle".
I don't want a remote control style stick to throttle up or down, I would rather have a Touch Screen to be doing that. This enables you to upgrade software and hopefully arrange the controller icons they way you like.
For instance, if you don't like your throttle on the right side of the screen, simply move it to the left and such.
This has nothing to do with "Going Virtual".
The last thing I want to do is play some train simulator on the computer.
I want to run my real trains, I just want to do it with a touch screen interface.

 

[BSVRR]

I love technology, it's makes the old stuff cheaper.

 

[cdouglas]

Everything you mentioned is available now and for a relatively minor cost and not terribly complicated to setup, except for programming decoders from a phone. You have to do that from a PC.

I just got into the hobby about a year ago along with my 5 year old son since he loves trains so much. I am enjoying the electronics part as well as the rest, although I don't have a permanent layout to do scenery past a few buildings. I have to pull out the ez track and do a layout on the floor that traverses a couple rooms and a hallway.

Anyway, here is my control setup:

1. Digitrax Zephyr: used for $125
2. Digitrax Pr3: $60, provides computer interface to Zephyr, USB from PC to Zephyr.
3. laptop running JRMI (laptop not free, JRMI is free and runs on Windows,Mac, and Linux)
4. WiThrottle app for iphone/ipod touch ($10) or android (free I think) While not the slickest looking app, its functional and works really well. I have 4 iphones/ipod touch and each can control 2 locos at a time easily. So I got 4 touchscreen wireless throttles for $10. You can MU as many locos together as you want really easy, and can access all functions easily. I think it supports dcc turnouts as well.
5. Decoders in each loco: $15 each. I'm using Bachmann, Digitrax and NCE decoders and have had no issues with any of them.

JRMI can do all the decoder programming you need from the GUI with just selecting checkboxes and radio boxes if your decoder is supported and most seem to be. It has tons of features I haven't even investigated yet concerning layout control since I don't have DCC controlled turnouts.

I'd be more than happy to answer more questions if you have any about getting something like this setup.

-Chris

 

[scoobydo]

Everything you mentioned is available now and for a relatively minor cost and not terribly complicated to setup, except for programming decoders from a phone. You have to do that from a PC.

I just got into the hobby about a year ago along with my 5 year old son since he loves trains so much. I am enjoying the electronics part as well as the rest, although I don't have a permanent layout to do scenery past a few buildings. I have to pull out the ez track and do a layout on the floor that traverses a couple rooms and a hallway.

Anyway, here is my control setup:

1. Digitrax Zephyr: used for $125
2. Digitrax Pr3: $60, provides computer interface to Zephyr, USB from PC to Zephyr.
3. laptop running JRMI (laptop not free, JRMI is free and runs on Windows,Mac, and Linux)
4. WiThrottle app for iphone/ipod touch ($10) or android (free I think) While not the slickest looking app, its functional and works really well. I have 4 iphones/ipod touch and each can control 2 locos at a time easily. So I got 4 touchscreen wireless throttles for $10. You can MU as many locos together as you want really easy, and can access all functions easily. I think it supports dcc turnouts as well.
5. Decoders in each loco: $15 each. I'm using Bachmann, Digitrax and NCE decoders and have had no issues with any of them.

JRMI can do all the decoder programming you need from the GUI with just selecting checkboxes and radio boxes if your decoder is supported and most seem to be. It has tons of features I haven't even investigated yet concerning layout control since I don't have DCC controlled turnouts.

I'd be more than happy to answer more questions if you have any about getting something like this setup.

-Chris

First I have heard of WiThrottle, Thank You!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2z6QfBqcBo
Looks exactly what I am looking for.
Like you said, not the slickest looking app, but I hope they will continue to develop it.

It looks like JMRI supports many TIU's. Did you find the Digitrax to be the cheapest, or was it just what you could find?
Seems to me that all you need is a TIU regardless of brand, so I wanted to pickup the cheapest since you are really only using it for the interface to the PC.

 

[cdouglas]

There is only a couple PC interfaces for Digitrax afaik. The Pr3 and the Locobuffer USB. they are about the same price I think withing $5. If you want to program sounds, then get the PR3 since locobuffer can't. If only need the interface, most seem to prefer the locobuffer since it claims to have better short out support. I planned on doing sounds so I got the Pr3. I have had zero problems with it after I got things figured out the first time.

-Chris

 

[Rotorranch]

Your completely missing the point Rotorranch. Phones nowadays are not phones. They are mini computers in which you can make calls.
Heck, I rarely use mine for calls. Mostly e-mail and running applications, just like a computer.
What I meant from running it from your phone is that you can use an iphone or android enabled device like a Droid phone to open an application to throttle your trains. It is not meant to "dial" your track so you can run it from far away. You still have to be within range of the reciever.

Going Virtual has nothing to do with this thread. I love working on the trains and paying attention to detail and working on layouts. You will never take away the hands on approach to this hobby.
This thread is simply about control or your "throttle".
I don't want a remote control style stick to throttle up or down, I would rather have a Touch Screen to be doing that. This enables you to upgrade software and hopefully arrange the controller icons they way you like.
For instance, if you don't like your throttle on the right side of the screen, simply move it to the left and such.
This has nothing to do with "Going Virtual".
The last thing I want to do is play some train simulator on the computer.
I want to run my real trains, I just want to do it with a touch screen interface.

Scooby, I didn't miss the point at all. Perhaps you missed the point of my post.

I don't need, nor do I want, a layout that has a controller such as you mention. Nor do I need or want a cell phone. I'm happy with knobs and switches. It suits me. Just as my analog knob and dial controlled 30 year old microwave suits me. (Try to buy a new computer controlled microwave and have it last for 30 years!)

My MRC Twin-pak controller has been kicking for almost 45 years! And the knobs and switches are right where they ought to be. I even bought another one off ePay a few years back so I can run more trains on my analog layout.

My rotary phone is still working after almost 50 years. Try that with your cell phone!

And I drive a 47 year old car, too, (complete with a 47 year old tag!) and a 37 year old pick up truck. No computer controls there either. See if your 2011 Prius is still running in 30 years, or less.

About the only thing I want a computer for is ePay and browsing forums, and some email. And since 1998, I'm now on my 4th computer. If they last 3-4 years, I figure it's a good one.

"Buttercup"

Rotor (from the backwoods near Atlanta, Gawga)