MANTUA 0-6-0

[Kusojiji]

Never had one of these before but have seen a lot of videos on stuff of this vintage. Found one on fleabay for a reasonable price and they had a video of it running, so I took a chance.

The mechanism is interesting in that it picks up power from both the loco and tender. The loco picks up power from one rail and the tender from the other. There is a wire between the tender and loco to transfer the power to the motor. The loco's keeper plate is removable and there are bearing halves in there to take the wear and to pick up the power.

The boiler is a chunk of metal. The whole thing weighs over 400 grams, which is a little bit less than my Kato GP35. This thing should pull like crazy.

This thing is a beast!

The motor is an old open frame thing. I think it was called a pittman. It pulls about .200 amps and vibrates quite a bit. I cleaned it out and lubed it up, but it can't help being what it is. The wire goes to the tender.

The tender is a metal bottom with a plastic cover. The trucks have mettal wheels on one side and plastic on the other. They transfer power from one rail to the mettal bottom and a wire is tied to this metal bottom to the motor.

Plans for this:
1. grind off the rivets on the tender to be able to separate the body from the chassis. Want to wash it but don't want the water to get inside.
2. replace the tender trucks with athearn consolidation trucks that pick up power from both rails. This will require drilling holes into the metal chassis for the wires. Maybe add more weight to the tender.
3. replace the horn hook couplers with knuckles. I read that Kadee 37s are it.
4. add a headlight and taillight. This will require drilling through a lot of metal in the boiler. Not quite sure how to do this yet.
5. remotor. I see NWSL has a kit, but it is quite pricey. I have a Kato HO motor and an Athearn genesis can motor available. I've test run the Kato motor that has flywheels and it seems to be a bit unbalanced. The Athearn runs smoother but at higher amperage. May go this route. Need to get a flywheel puller as the one that I have won't fit between the flywheel and motor.

In the meantime, it is currently busy pushing some box cars around the room. It's quite noisy below 5 vdc and smooths out above that.

 

[dennis461]

Kadee coupler conversion instructions https://www.kadee.com/hocc_mantua

Headlight, drilling all the way through the boiler is dangerous, you could destroy something.
Use tiny black headlight wire, run outside, just like a real locomotive!

 

[Kusojiji]

I had thought of running the wires outside as well as an option. Can you attach the kadee instructions, please? I only see the link to your C: drive location.

Thanks!!

BTW nice handrail stanchions!

 

[dennis461]

Mantua HO Scale Coupler Conversions

Couplers, Trucks, Wheels and Freight Cars - Made In USA

www.kadee.com

 

[Kusojiji]

Thanks!! #37 it is!

 

[Kusojiji]

I just received a reply from NWSL. I may be forking out the bucks for the kit after all. Their kit slows the loco down and I hope the gears are more refined. Will need a wheel puller now...

 

[trailrider]

I just received a reply from NWSL. I may be forking out the bucks for the kit after all. Their kit slows the loco down and I hope the gears are more refined. Will need a wheel puller now...

If you pull a driving wheel in order to get the gear off, you may need a NWSL quartering tool to be sure both driver axles are quartered the same when you remount the drive wheel. I would first see if the worm gear on the new motor shaft would mesh with the original bull gear on the axle. You might have to shim the rear of the new motor so the drive shaft would angle down to engage the old bull gear. The only problem you might encounter there would be if there is enough room in the boiler cavity to do that.

I have remotored a number of Mantua steam locomotives, but not the 0-6-0's. There used to be gear boxes that could be mounted over the bull gear on the Mikado's and Pacific's. The drive shaft on the gear box could then be connected to the shaft on a can motor by a flexible tubing. Not sure if NWSL has other can motors that would work.

Best of luck with your project. Keep us posted!

 

[dennis461]

Be careful, I have destroyed wheels trying to do this. Are the wheels brass or zinc?

 

[Kusojiji]

Do you know if Mantua splines their shaft? I am hoping that they do to help hold the gear and especially at the wheel as that helps with quartering.

As far as a quartering tool, I 3d printed one for another loco and it seemed to work pretty good.

print out 2 of these, put the pin in the hole and make the edges flat against a table.

It took a lot of adjusting of the tool to get the slop out before it could be used... and yeah, they were that far out.

I am also thinking about 3d printing a motor mount once the new motor comes in. I will use the old motor as the template for the intial measurements.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Kusojiji]

Be careful, I have destroyed wheels trying to do this. Are the wheels brass or zinc?

I don't know. They look to be made of zinc. What's the danger?

 

[trailrider]

Probably zinc (Zamac) centers. But that shouldn't be a problem unless the metal has really aged and embrittled. The best way to change the gear and pull the driver is with a wheel puller. But that will add to your cost. Easiest and least expensive is if you can avoid having to change the bull gear to begin with.

 

[Kusojiji]

Yup, plan to get a larger gear/wheel puller. Won't be getting one from NWSL though as they are quite expensive and I don't particularly like their design although beefy. I would prefer it if they supported the wheel a bit more as it looks like half is just hanging.

 

[Kusojiji]

I would like to avoid pulling the gear but I think it may be the source of the noise. It has a lot of flashing. But we'll see. I'll start with the motor first and if it works, then I'll stop there.

Appreciate the feedback and experience!!

 

[logandsawman]

I would like to avoid pulling the gear but I think it may be the source of the noise. It has a lot of flashing. But we'll see. I'll start with the motor first and if it works, then I'll stop there.

Appreciate the feedback and experience!!

I had one of these, I ran it for years, it is shown on one of my videos, I think 2021.

I added lots of weight to the tender, however I think the kit shown in the coffee shop would have done the trick. The wire from the motor to the trucks gets brittle and can interfere with the contact.

Mine was fairly quiet, however. My main problem with it was it lacked responsiveness.

I sold it on ebay, got what I paid for it.

 

[Kusojiji]

I'm going to check out your video. Thanks! Glad you got that Varney going!

 

[logandsawman]

I'm going to check out your video. Thanks! Glad you got that Varney going!

I liked the looks of it, I think it had a hard time on the turnouts due to the wheelbase.

 

[Kusojiji]

I did find the video. That one was a quiet runner. I appreciate that you record the sounds of the runs so we can hear how they perform as well as just the clanking over the rails.

 

[Kusojiji]

Did some tests with motors for options and to see if the open frame motor was as bad as I thought it is. It does run well, but the vibrations is a lot. Used the Dewalt drill bit box as an echo chamber. Motor speed was as close as I could guess.

The room baseline:

Open frame

Athearn Genesis

Lifelike N scale

1020 coreless

The Athearn did very well. But then I tried to stick it inside the loco body and it is a big no-go. Motor is 18.15 mm wide and the body shell is 16.15.

So it looks like the NWSL kit will be the fix with the 1630 motor. I checked the modulus of the existing gear set and it is a strange 3.5. The NWSL kit is 4.0, so the axle gear will have to be changed unfortunately. Still looking for a wheel puller.

 

[ctclibby]

Kusojiji - And I though that I really overthink stuff! Good job! Just for giggles and grins, put the 1st motor on a rubber pad and do your test again just to see the difference of that vs the hollow box. Box could be a resonator and amplify the sound a bit. Let us know!

L8r

 

[Kusojiji]

Thanks! I did it on the resonator to get a feel for the vibration. The frame and wheels are nice and solid. They roll very well and is smooth. I'm thinking that the motor vibrating is the cause of the coffee grinder sound. I didn't find any spurs or major imperfections in the gears.

I do have one more experiment. I loosened the screws on the motor and found that it starts to bind against one side, but only at one spot on the armature. That's the high spot. So, to balance it, I added some paint to the other side. Waiting for it to dry and will give it a spin soon.