Looking for advice on modifying Talgo trucks with Kadee couplers for correct height

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W

Warpiper

Member
Hi All,

I'm looking for advice on modifying talgo trucks and using Kadee couplers mounted to the bed. I've seen several youtube videos on how to do it but my concern is getting the couplers to the correct height. Some of the box cars may be close but I have several open hoppers and the attachment point for the draft box looks like its going to be too high. All the talgo truck are either held in with a clip type pin or with just a plain friction fit pin so I don't think I could add washers if I have to elevate the coupler. My initial plan was to cut off the coupler on the truck and then glue the draft box onto the bed of the car using Kadee #148. This will be my first time messing around with couplers so I'm not sure what to expect. Once I have it figured out I'm going to order the parts to include a Kadee coupler height gauge. I'd be interested to know what others have done and what has worked for them. Thanks.

Chris
 
If the couplers are too high, just add some styrene shims between the frame and the coupler box. If you use some Woodland Scenics Accent Glue, it is a removable product that will hold the couplers in place while you measure. For styrene shims, consider the plastic thingies on loaves of bread which are about .030" thick and then you don't have to buy a bunch of Evergreen styrene. Definitely cut the tongue off the Talgo's when you convert.

Willie
 
First of all I have assumed that you are talking HO. I'm unsure if Willie is suggesting moving away from Talgo Trucks; or, not. However, that would be my suggestion. Just cut off the Talgo tongue that the coupler is mounted to and body mount the couplers. This is what I have done to my passenger cars, which are the older Roundhouse Overland cars. I don't buy freight cars that have Talgo trucks so that's not a problem for me.
 


santafewillie said:
If the couplers are too high, just add some styrene shims between the frame and the coupler box. If you use some Woodland Scenics Accent Glue, it is a removable product that will hold the couplers in place while you measure. For styrene shims, consider the plastic thingies on loaves of bread which are about .030" thick and then you don't have to buy a bunch of Evergreen styrene. Definitely cut the tongue off the Talgo's when you convert.

Willie
Click to expand...

Hi Willie,

Thanks, I appreciate the suggestions and recommendations. I haven't used styrene yet but it looks like it gets a lot of use in this hobby. I like the idea of using those bread ties, cheap and I already have some on hand! Just need to get some glue. :D
 
NP2626 said:
First of all I have assumed that you are talking HO. I'm unsure if Willie is suggesting moving away from Talgo Trucks; or, not. However, that would be my suggestion. Just cut off the Talgo tongue that the coupler is mounted to and body mount the couplers. This is what I have done to my passenger cars, which are the older Roundhouse Overland cars. I don't buy freight cars that have Talgo trucks so that's not a problem for me.
Click to expand...

Hi Mark,

Thanks. Sorry, I have HO, I probably should have mentioned that. Most of the cars I have are coming off of ebay and most of them have talgo trucks. I'm slowly collecting some B&M rolling stock and all of them so far have talgo trucks. Cutting off the tongue and adding a body mount is definitely the way I want to go.
 
NP2626 said:
First of all I have assumed that you are talking HO. I'm unsure if Willie is suggesting moving away from Talgo Trucks; or, not. However, that would be my suggestion. Just cut off the Talgo tongue that the coupler is mounted to and body mount the couplers. This is what I have done to my passenger cars, which are the older Roundhouse Overland cars. I don't buy freight cars that have Talgo trucks so that's not a problem for me.
Click to expand...
Even if you decide to keep the Talgo trucks (budget?), cutting off the tongue and body mounting the couplers is what I recommend.

Willie
 
santafewillie said:
Even if you decide to keep the Talgo trucks (budget?), cutting off the tongue and body mounting the couplers is what I recommend.

Willie
Click to expand...


I think that's the way I'm going to go. I looked at the prices of new trucks and I'm not ready to go there yet (budget). I think what I might do though is to modify the talgo trucks that have the pin holding them in and replace it with a screw. Doesn't look like I can do that with the clip on ones though.
 
In order to properly balance the freight car (or any other car) properly you need to have the truck on one end to be fairly rigid,...that is only loose enough to rotate freely, but NOT allow any tilting.

The other end of the car needs to have the truck have free motion in both rotation and tilting.

Since most Talgo installations do not allow such adjustment, you are better off plugging those talgo holes with a plastic or wood dowel, the drilling them for a screw installation

Kadee makes some nice inexpensive coupler boxes that can be shimmed and glued to the car frame.

BTW, there are a number of plastic couplers out on the market that are cheaper than Kadees, but in time those will haunt you. If you leave the car parked on a curve for some period of time, their little plastic coupler 'whisker' will take a set, then not operate properly after that. And if you ever get into pulling longer trains, the plastic ones do not hold up as well as the metal couplers.

The ' traditional' style Kadees with the metal plate/spring affair are not as easy to use as the newer 'whisker ones' I'm going with these in the future.
whisker Kadee.jpg
 
beiland said:
In order to properly balance the freight car (or any other car) properly you need to have the truck on one end to be fairly rigid,...that is only loose enough to rotate freely, but NOT allow any tilting.

The other end of the car needs to have the truck have free motion in both rotation and tilting.

Since most Talgo installations do not allow such adjustment, you are better off plugging those talgo holes with a plastic or wood dowel, the drilling them for a screw installation

Kadee makes some nice inexpensive coupler boxes that can be shimmed and glued to the car frame.

BTW, there are a number of plastic couplers out on the market that are cheaper than Kadees, but in time those will haunt you. If you leave the car parked on a curve for some period of time, their little plastic coupler 'whisker' will take a set, then not operate properly after that. And if you ever get into pulling longer trains, the plastic ones do not hold up as well as the metal couplers.

The ' traditional' style Kadees with the metal plate/spring affair are not as easy to use as the newer 'whisker ones' I'm going with these in the future.
View attachment 65221
Click to expand...

Hi beiland,

Thanks for that. I didn't know that about balancing the trucks. Does it matter which end is tight and which is loose? I'm thinking the front end being loose. The plan for now is to cut the tongue off and mount a draft box to the body. I'd like to plug the holes and tap it but I'd have to get new truck with a center hole and I'm not ready for that. I definitely like the whisker couplers and those will be the ones I get.
 
Warpiper said:
Hi All,

I'm looking for advice on modifying talgo trucks and using Kadee couplers mounted to the bed. I've seen several youtube videos on how to do it but my concern is getting the couplers to the correct height. Some of the box cars may be close but I have several open hoppers and the attachment point for the draft box looks like its going to be too high. All the talgo truck are either held in with a clip type pin or with just a plain friction fit pin so I don't think I could add washers if I have to elevate the coupler. My initial plan was to cut off the coupler on the truck and then glue the draft box onto the bed of the car using Kadee #148. This will be my first time messing around with couplers so I'm not sure what to expect. Once I have it figured out I'm going to order the parts to include a Kadee coupler height gauge. I'd be interested to know what others have done and what has worked for them.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, my long winded post from the other day seems to have vanished. Kadee makes both over and under shank couplers to help make up for mounts that are slightly too high or too low.
 


I'm am most tempted to utilize those Kadee 'over and under shank' couplers where there already exist couplers pockets on the cars.

But in general I like to use the straight center shank couplers where ever possible. And if I am going to add body mounted couplers to previous Talgo equiped cars, I'll opp to shim my newly installed coupler boxes in a manner that straight shank couplers can be used.
 
"In order to properly balance the freight car (or any other car) properly you need to have the truck on one end to be fairly rigid,...that is only loose enough to rotate freely, but NOT allow any tilting.

The other end of the car needs to have the truck have free motion in both rotation and tilting".

What does the above suggestion have to do with the balance of the Freight Car?

If you have a situation like mine, where I have found on my layout that having both trucks free to move in all axis is the only way to get things to operate. There are no clear cut single method that works for everyone and we all need to do our own due diligence on how to set things up! If you consider that the idea behind one tighter truck and one loose one is to decrease the amount of wobble the cars do when going trough uneven track, this seems a pretty small benefit from doing this!
 
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Iron Horseman said:
Hmmm, my long winded post from the other day seems to have vanished. Kadee makes both over and under shank couplers to help make up for mounts that are slightly too high or too low.
Click to expand...

Hi Iron Horseman,

Sorry about your post. That has happened to me before on other websites. Frustrating, you write a short story then have to do it over again. I've never played with couplers before so I'm not sure what to expect. I'm going to order some #14 and a bunch of #148. If shimming doesn't work then I'll order the over/under shanks and use them. Don't have any experience yet to know which ones I'll need.
 
Check out this chart to know what couplers do what. In general "overset" couplers will lower the coupler height, while "underset" couplers will raise the height. Raising the height can also be accomplished with coupler box shims or truck washers. Note that Kadee only includes coupler boxes (gearboxes) with their "kits" but not in their bulk packs.

Willie
 
santafewillie said:
Check out this chart to know what couplers do what. In general "overset" couplers will lower the coupler height, while "underset" couplers will raise the height. Raising the height can also be accomplished with coupler box shims or truck washers. Note that Kadee only includes coupler boxes (gearboxes) with their "kits" but not in their bulk packs.

Willie
Click to expand...

Hi Willie, thanks. I'll check it out. Good to know about the bulk packs.
 
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