Kadee Metal wheel sets and speed limits.

[Diesel-Electric]

Hello people,


I have 6 freight cars that have plastic wheels, one Walthers Trainline flat car, two Accurail 5600 series 50' boxcars and three Accurail 2000 series hopper cars.

I wish to install metal wheels on them, and I've been looking at Kadee #520 33" metal wheels:
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page520.htm

Is this the correct size for these freight cars?

Also, if I do install these wheels would the cars roll freely than with their original plastic wheels?

Info will be appreciated.


Also, I had posted this in my last post regarding which switch size to use, and was off topic, so I guess I'll just ask it again:

On a typical US single track mainline and branch line what would be the typical speed limit for a freight train? From what I've read, it seems to be in the region of 20-30 mph? Is this correct?

Again information will be appreciated.



Regards,



DE

 

[Cjcrescent]

Cars up to 70 ton capacity would use 33" wheels. Not being familiar with the Accurail numbers, what are the cars loaded capacity as listed in the LD WT? If 140,000 lbs or below, 33" for sure.

As to speed, there are several factors to take into consideration, size of the turnout(s) used, roadbed conditions etc.

 

[rodney mcgiveron]

G'day from Australia....This is amazing....I HATE PLASTIC WHEELS...I have worked hard at eliminating them on all my 75-80 rolling stock and have used mostly Bachmann 33" Freight ones..when buying...not one ounce of trouble anywhere. A few weeks ago a modelling friend bought some second hand coal cars with plastic wheels and also bought some new metal wheels for better running..He's had no end of trouble with the bevelling and they'll hardly spin at all , so he's about to buy a honing tool for the trucks to see if he can get them to work properly...On the factory ones and my own replacement ones , the metal wheels have made a huge improvement , not just running but you can't beat metal on metal sound either..Definitely 33" for freight and I think it might be 36" for passenger isn't it ?..If you go Bachmann from personal experience you should be fine. Cheers Rod..

 

[RCShadow]

G'day from Australia....This is amazing....I HATE PLASTIC WHEELS...I have worked hard at eliminating them on all my 75-80 rolling stock and have used mostly Bachmann 33" Freight ones..when buying...not one ounce of trouble anywhere. A few weeks ago a modelling friend bought some second hand coal cars with plastic wheels and also bought some new metal wheels for better running..He's had no end of trouble with the bevelling and they'll hardly spin at all , so he's about to buy a honing tool for the trucks to see if he can get them to work properly...On the factory ones and my own replacement ones , the metal wheels have made a huge improvement , not just running but you can't beat metal on metal sound either..Definitely 33" for freight and I think it might be 36" for passenger isn't it ?..If you go Bachmann from personal experience you should be fine. Cheers Rod..

+1 for what Rod is telling you. I run my trains for hours on end and have had nothing but trouble with cars that have plastic wheelsets. I now change any car I buy with plastic wheels to Kadee metal wheels. They are heavier, track better, and just solve many problems I have come across. If you have any grades on your layout at all, I feel metal wheels are a must.

Once the Kadee's have had some run time on them and have had time to file down on the rails a bit, all the better. I have used my moto-tool with a buffing wheel to speed up the process but nothing beats run time to get them to the perfect height and trim on the flanges.

 

[cajon]

Don't like Kadees because the wheel treads are painted black & it eventually flakes off but they're still black. Any real RR wheel tread is a very shiny steel color like Intermountains, Reboxx & P2Ks. Also Kadees have plastic axles which can be bent if not installed right. So now only use wheel sets w/ steel axles like Intermountain & Reboxx.
Freight car wheels are sized by the weight of the car & it's carrying capacity. As others have said 33" for 70 ton & below and 36" above that. Their are some exceptions to that rule for intermodal well cars & autoracks. And very early freight cars used 30" wheels.

 

[dave1905]

Hello people,


I have 6 freight cars that have plastic wheels, one Walthers Trainline flat car, two Accurail 5600 series 50' boxcars and three Accurail 2000 series hopper cars.

I wish to install metal wheels on them, and I've been looking at Kadee #520 33" metal wheels:

Is this the correct size for these freight cars?

Cars less than 100 ton capacity use 33" wheels, cars 100 ton capacity and up use 36" wheels. This works for everything except intermodal cars.

Also, if I do install these wheels would the cars roll freely than with their original plastic wheels?

Yes

On a typical US single track mainline and branch line what would be the typical speed limit for a freight train? From what I've read, it seems to be in the region of 20-30 mph? Is this correct?

Federal law limits trains on unsignalled track to 49 mph, track without cab signals and automatic train stop to 79 mph.

Most freight cars are limited to 60 mph. Some trains 50 mph (coal trains). MofW cars to 35-40 mph.

Main track speed is determined by curvature and grade (stopping distance). Typical main track speeds for signaled territory is 50-70 mph. Typical main track speeds for unsignalled territory is 40-45 mph. #15 and above switches 30 mph. Below that typically 10 mph through the switches.

Back in the steam era, speed was more determined by the type of engine. Engines with drivers less than 60" were typically limited to 25-45 mph. Engines with drivers between 60 and 69" were in the 45-55 mph range and engines with drivers above 70" were 60 mph+.

YMMV

 

[RCShadow]

Don't like Kadees because the wheel treads are painted black & it eventually flakes off but they're still black. Any real RR wheel tread is a very shiny steel color like Intermountains, Reboxx & P2Ks. Also Kadees have plastic axles which can be bent if not installed right. So now only use wheel sets w/ steel axles like Intermountain & Reboxx.
Freight car wheels are sized by the weight of the car & it's carrying capacity. As others have said 33" for 70 ton & below and 36" above that. Their are some exceptions to that rule for intermodal well cars & autoracks. And very early freight cars used 30" wheels.

Well, I do have to agree that I like a little bling too. I need to try some of those you speak of. Those rib backs look pretty good don't they?

LOL! Rims for trains

 

[cajon]

Rib back wheels being made of cast iron didn't do the intended job of cooling wheels & would shatter. They were replaced by flat back steel wheels. That started in the '30s & ribs were banned from interchange after 68. You can find more on Google using "rib back railroad wheels". So it depends on if you want steel or cast iron wheels on steel rail.

 

[RCShadow]

Rib back wheels being made of cast iron didn't do the intended job of cooling wheels & would shatter. They were replaced by flat back steel wheels. That started in the '30s & ribs were banned from interchange after 68. You can find more on Google using "rib back railroad wheels". So it depends on if you want steel or cast iron wheels on steel rail.

Hi Andy,

Thank you for the history on the wheels. I always find it interesting to gain a little knowledge on the MRR subject

 

[fcwilt]

And remember, when your in a bind, the difference between a scale 33" wheel and scale 36" wheel is about 0.035 real world inches. So if you cant find 36" I don't think anybody is going to notice if you used 33".

 

[cajon]

And remember, when your in a bind, the difference between a scale 33" wheel and scale 36" wheel is about 0.035 real world inches. So if you cant find 36" I don't think anybody is going to notice if you used 33".

But if you put 33" & 36" wheels in the same truck you'll see the difference.

 

[fcwilt]

Well yes but you'd have to be in a real bind to do that.

 

[RCShadow]

And remember, when your in a bind, the difference between a scale 33" wheel and scale 36" wheel is about 0.035 real world inches. So if you cant find 36" I don't think anybody is going to notice if you used 33".

I did that a few days ago on a Walthers coil car . I even took my moto-tool to it so it could get around some curves a little better.

 

[Diesel-Electric]

Hello People,


Nice, thanks for the info.

Cars up to 70 ton capacity would use 33" wheels. Not being familiar with the Accurail numbers, what are the cars loaded capacity as listed in the LD WT? If 140,000 lbs or below, 33" for sure.

Cjcrescent, on my Accurail Box cars the Data reads as follows: CAPY 157,000 LD LMT 158,000 LT WT 61,700

Accurail Hopper cars : CAPY 200,000 LD LMT 203,500 LT WT 59,500

Walthers flat car : CAPY 140,000 LD LMT 146,200 LT WT 73,800


So, I guess I'll have to install 36" metal wheels, me correct?


dave1905, thanks for the lesson on speed limits. Wow, one has to slow down so much (10 mph) thru switches less than #15, thats a lot. Anyway, I guess I know the speed limit for my layout now: 30 mph .

Well, thanks to all of You again, appreciated!


Regards,



DE

 

[Cjcrescent]

Hello People...


Accurail Box cars the Data reads as follows: CAPY 157,000 LD LMT 158,000 LT WT 61,700

Accurail Hopper cars : CAPY 200,000 LD LMT 203,500 LT WT 59,500

Walthers flat car : CAPY 140,000 LD LMT 146,200 LT WT 73,800


So, I guess I'll have to install 36" metal wheels, me correct?...


DE

The flat car has a 70 ton load capacity, so it would get 33".
The hoppers have a 100 ton load capacity, so they would get 36".
The boxcars are roughly 80 tons capacity, (actually 78.3 tons) Since the CAPY is closer to 80 tons than 70 tons, they too would get 36" wheels.

You actually look at the Capy, which means the load the car should be able to take, normally. The LD LMT is the largest load that could go on the car. Even at that weight the flatcar would only carry 73.1 tons. Still within the range of 33" wheels. It has been my experience in talking with prototype RR workers, SRR, L&N, W of A, Georgia, NS, & CSX, that the LD LMT is rarely used, as it causes greater wear and tear on the car, and cars cost a lot of money.

The LT WT, is the unloaded weight of the car, IOW the weight of the car itself.

 

[PaulB]

G'day from Australia....This is amazing....I HATE PLASTIC WHEELS...I have worked hard at eliminating them on all my 75-80 rolling stock and have used mostly Bachmann 33" Freight ones..when buying...not one ounce of trouble anywhere. A few weeks ago a modelling friend bought some second hand coal cars with plastic wheels and also bought some new metal wheels for better running..He's had no end of trouble with the bevelling and they'll hardly spin at all , so he's about to buy a honing tool for the trucks to see if he can get them to work properly...On the factory ones and my own replacement ones , the metal wheels have made a huge improvement , not just running but you can't beat metal on metal sound either..Definitely 33" for freight and I think it might be 36" for passenger isn't it ?..If you go Bachmann from personal experience you should be fine. Cheers Rod..

It might be that the problems your friend has encountered is due to variation in axle length between brands. The American HO standard is supposed to be 26mm axle length but the various manufactures have their own interpretation as to how long 26mm is. The Reboxx wheels mentioned are available in different axle lengths to suit trucks from the various manufactures.

 

[Diesel-Electric]

Hello there,

The flat car has a 70 ton load capacity, so it would get 33".
The hoppers have a 100 ton load capacity, so they would get 36".
The boxcars are roughly 80 tons capacity, (actually 78.3 tons) Since the CAPY is closer to 80 tons than 70 tons, they too would get 36" wheels.

Thanks again Cjcrescent!


Regards,


DE.