I really want to support my LHS....but
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just like with everything else in life there are those that are more successful. and those that are less successful keep complaining about unfair competition, the undercutting e-tail, the horrid ressesion (that intact has relatively little impact on hobby market) and everything else around them instead of admitting their own incompetence. businesses that fail are failing because of inability to adapt to new realities.
and guys i understand you want to see yourself as significant, but face it, your 500$ a month on average that you spend in your LHS (you support them with at least that much, right?), at 20% margin nets what? 100$? not even a dent in that sellers budget. so whether he survives or falls will not be dependent on your little contribution, but on ability of that business owner to attract sales and generate volume in general. if he doesn't - let him suffer the consequences and fall. if anything items can be had cheaper during the "going out of business" sales.
EDIT:
If i go buy from Ecomerical Train store or whatever, I have to deal with Paypal,or some jackhole who answeres the phone not knowing The difference between a GP40 vs GP40-2. As a FREAK i care. Id rather use my money in my Backwards state of Arizona Vs somewhere else.
and BTW, there is no guarantee that this "jackhole" as you described it is not running your local store either.
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How many of you go into a B&M shop to look and then order what you like online because it's cheaper? And then ask the owner lots of questions.
I really have a problem with that. You use their inventory for browing purposes and then give someone else the business.
The online stores that use JIT have no investment that you can browse. So how can you expect the B&M shop to have lower prices?
Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.
I buy online when I can't find it locally.
I really have a problem with that. You use their inventory for browing purposes and then give someone else the business.
The online stores that use JIT have no investment that you can browse. So how can you expect the B&M shop to have lower prices?
Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.
I buy online when I can't find it locally.
I have to agree with Tankist: much of it is a matter of a good business plan and practice to stay afloat. That means staying with your competition: now the on-line stores. I know of many LHS that have gone on-line to improve their revenues. However, many still do not put enough emphasis or effort in this direction to secure a piece of the pie. Not changing as the trends change will eventually close them down, regardless of your token business.
On-line shopping is BIG and fortunately is a plus for those that are concerned with getting the most out of their dollar. I do not pay the sticker price when buying an automobile;why should I pay MSRP for train goodies when I can get a large discount by shopping on-line. If hands on is your thing, browse your LHS , visit club layouts, train shows, etc., and then buy on-line. Dirty pool? Nope...just good business sense.
On-line shopping is BIG and fortunately is a plus for those that are concerned with getting the most out of their dollar. I do not pay the sticker price when buying an automobile;why should I pay MSRP for train goodies when I can get a large discount by shopping on-line. If hands on is your thing, browse your LHS , visit club layouts, train shows, etc., and then buy on-line. Dirty pool? Nope...just good business sense.
tankist
Well-Known Member
and i have no problem with it whatsoever. that is a reality, and one that is not unique to MRR field. business owner needs to plan and account for that reality. I have exactly zero obligation to a particular hobby store. again i'm not into this hobby to make someones living. if its tough for the owner and he can not compete he should close doors, there will be others who are more successful.
just like with everything else in life there are those that are more successful. and those that are less successful keep complaining about unfair competition, the undercutting e-tail, the horrid ressesion (that intact has relatively little impact on hobby market) and everything else around them instead of admitting their own incompetence. businesses that fail are failing because of inability to adapt to new realities.
and guys i understand you want to see yourself as significant, but face it, your 500$ a month on average that you spend in your LHS (you support them with at least that much, right?), at 20% margin nets what? 100$? not even a dent in that sellers budget. so whether he survives or falls will not be dependent on your little contribution, but on ability of that business owner to attract sales and generate volume in general. if he doesn't - let him suffer the consequences and fall. if anything items can be had cheaper during the "going out of business" sales.
EDIT:
exactlybrowse your LHS , visit club layouts, train shows, etc., and then buy on-line. Dirty pool? Nope...just good business sense.
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ALCOS4EVER
Member
OK lets really see what a "good business model" should be. To reduce costs we eliminate all items that do not sell in 30 days, shelf space is valuable you don't want to waste it on dead inventory. Consolidate vendors to those who offer the most favorable terms and freight policies, small vendors are just not worth the excess bookkeeping involved. Use vendor/industry top 100 list to select stocking items. If it isn't popular it has no place in the inventory. Require preorders to eliminate paying for inventory that isn't a garanteed sale. I can go on if you like. What you arrive at is WalMart! If that is where you want to buy your model railroad supplies that is what a good business model will bring you. In case you haven't noticed WalMart DOESN"T sell model railroad supplies because it is not a big money maker!!! If we don't "support" our local hobby shops they will die and then we can go back to the early days of model railroading and scratch build everything. I'm sorry if I sound dramitic but I always laugh when people say it's my money and I'm saving every penny I can, but if nobody purchased from "their" employer guess what would happen to their job, maybe it should right, survival of the fittest!
Yes, that sale shelf is a great thing......it's usually about half off MSRP. A great deal for us, plus the LHS is making money on it too. Mostly everything else is at the 20% off mark, again a win-win.
Speaking of....i have my eye on some Atlas plastic pellet hoppers on that half price shelf. If noone else takes them, they will be mine at the end of the month.
Speaking of....i have my eye on some Atlas plastic pellet hoppers on that half price shelf. If noone else takes them, they will be mine at the end of the month.
Yup....volume is the name of the game. If you have a core of regulars, they can carry you. My LHS has a box that all the regulars orders go into when they arrive. That box is usually around half full and always with different stuff. Plus the movement on the shelf, it all works out.
tankist
Well-Known Member
EDIT: Looks like i replied before you removed your post 
if nobody purchased from "their" employer means only one thing - that employer (or that business) is not needed as there is no demand for his service/product. as such it needs to close and obviously dismiss employees as they are busy making unneeded service/product and can be employed somewhere else.
"If we don't "support" our local hobby shops" please leave the word "support" out of this. hobby shops don't support the hobby nor do model makers. athearn, walthers and others makers exist for one purpose only - to make money. stores exist for one reason only - to make money reselling manufacturers products. that's their primary and ultimate goal. to better achieve that goal of money making, maker/reseller may employ various marketing approaches: conventions, shows, additional consultations in stores, commercial ads etc.
now, the entire reason all this industry exists is because there is a demand: you, me and may others want to spend money on that hobby. and if there is a demand there will be supply - model industry wants that money.
they will die and then we can go back to the early days of model railroading and scratch build everything i apologize in advance, but this statement is laughable. commercial models of trains go all the way back to late 19th century, it was born together with the railroading itself. and the reason is we humans throughout our human history history modeled everything we see: architechture, transportation, everything. and i think it will remain so.
failing business should not be supported. my (or anyones) money is a reward, and those who want it better compete and perform the best to earn it. if modeltrainstuff.com (which is also B&M store) performs best, why on earth should i reward poor performance that arrogant lying jerk around the corner (nearest MRR sotre owner)? this is not rhetoric question, i asked this above and yet to see answer.
PS: IMHO ammount of stores in north chicago burbs area is significant, i know of 5 within 30 minutes drive. i don't see big deal if one or 2 close, nor i see problem with all of them running which obviously will mean there is enough market for them all to no go under.
MARKET. this will sort everything out
if nobody purchased from "their" employer means only one thing - that employer (or that business) is not needed as there is no demand for his service/product. as such it needs to close and obviously dismiss employees as they are busy making unneeded service/product and can be employed somewhere else.
"If we don't "support" our local hobby shops" please leave the word "support" out of this. hobby shops don't support the hobby nor do model makers. athearn, walthers and others makers exist for one purpose only - to make money. stores exist for one reason only - to make money reselling manufacturers products. that's their primary and ultimate goal. to better achieve that goal of money making, maker/reseller may employ various marketing approaches: conventions, shows, additional consultations in stores, commercial ads etc.
now, the entire reason all this industry exists is because there is a demand: you, me and may others want to spend money on that hobby. and if there is a demand there will be supply - model industry wants that money.
they will die and then we can go back to the early days of model railroading and scratch build everything i apologize in advance, but this statement is laughable. commercial models of trains go all the way back to late 19th century, it was born together with the railroading itself. and the reason is we humans throughout our human history history modeled everything we see: architechture, transportation, everything. and i think it will remain so.
failing business should not be supported. my (or anyones) money is a reward, and those who want it better compete and perform the best to earn it. if modeltrainstuff.com (which is also B&M store) performs best, why on earth should i reward poor performance that arrogant lying jerk around the corner (nearest MRR sotre owner)? this is not rhetoric question, i asked this above and yet to see answer.
PS: IMHO ammount of stores in north chicago burbs area is significant, i know of 5 within 30 minutes drive. i don't see big deal if one or 2 close, nor i see problem with all of them running which obviously will mean there is enough market for them all to no go under.
MARKET. this will sort everything out
incorrect. you are a part of your local economy. not at all significant but still a part, just like everybody elseI support local economy,thats all i have to say.
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EDIT: Looks like i replied before you removed your post
if nobody purchased from "their" employer means only one thing - that employer (or that business) is not needed as there is no demand for his service/product. as such it needs to close and obviously dismiss employees as they are busy making unneeded service/product and can be employed somewhere else.
"If we don't "support" our local hobby shops" please leave the word "support" out of this. hobby shops don't support the hobby nor do model makers. athearn, walthers and others makers exist for one purpose only - to make money. stores exist for one reason only - to make money reselling manufacturers products. that's their primary and ultimate goal. to better achieve that goal of money making, maker/reseller may employ various marketing approaches: conventions, shows, additional consultations in stores, commercial ads etc.
now, the entire reason all this industry exists is because there is a demand: you, me and may others want to spend money on that hobby. and if there is a demand there will be supply - model industry wants that money.
they will die and then we can go back to the early days of model railroading and scratch build everything i apologize in advance, but this statement is laughable. commercial models of trains go all the way back to late 19th century, it was born together with the railroading itself. and the reason is we humans throughout our human history history modeled everything we see: architechture, transportation, everything. and i think it will remain so.
failing business should not be supported. my (or anyones) money is a reward, and those who want it better compete and perform the best to earn it. if modeltrainstuff.com (which is also B&M store) performs best, why on earth should i reward poor performance that arrogant lying jerk around the corner (nearest MRR sotre owner)? this is not rhetoric question, i asked this above and yet to see answer.
PS: IMHO ammount of stores in north chicago burbs area is significant, i know of 5 within 30 minutes drive. i don't see big deal if one or 2 close, nor i see problem with all of them running which obviously will mean there is enough market for them all to no go under.
MARKET. this will sort everything out
incorrect. you are a part of your local economy. not at all significant but still a part, just like everybody else
If i go buy from Ecomerical Train store or whatever, I have to deal with Paypal,or some jackhole who answeres the phone not knowing The difference between a GP40 vs GP40-2. As a FREAK i care. Id rather use my money in my Backwards state of Arizona Vs somewhere else.
tankist
Well-Known Member
besides you not being correct about payment (no, paypal is not specifically required), which point of my post were you exactly replying to?
and BTW, there is no guarantee that this "jackhole" as you described it is not running your local store either.
Paypal is a Joke, I hate it.
The only way to buy on ebay now is By paypal.
My choice to deal with the local shop is because he is a railfan,and not a MBA.
I have the ability to pick any shop i want,and if i want the item ill pay for it.
I may dislike the price,But if you wanna play Then you gotta pay.
He gives me a great discount because ive spent that much money, No e store has every offered to give me a reward back.
The only way to buy on ebay now is By paypal.
My choice to deal with the local shop is because he is a railfan,and not a MBA.
I have the ability to pick any shop i want,and if i want the item ill pay for it.
I may dislike the price,But if you wanna play Then you gotta pay.
He gives me a great discount because ive spent that much money, No e store has every offered to give me a reward back.
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I try to support my LHS but the problem is that the selection sucks! And what they do have is at near full retail price. And they almost never get any new inventory and when they do it will be all one thing. Like 30, yes 30, Southern GP40Xs all the same road number. After things sit around for years they will mark them down to about what you could mail order them for. And now the last few times I have been in the store alot of the stuff is damaged. Broken or missing hand rails, truck side frames that broken, some of the rolling stock boxes look like they have been steped on. The place is starting to look like some kind of factory secounds outlet.
tankist
Well-Known Member
joem5127, yet they still afloat. makes you wonder how they survive, doesn't it?
strange, works well for me. last month I ebayed bunch of old PC parts that didn't sell on craigs and have quite some funds on my PP account. part of it is actually already gone paying for some kits. and if you so much against paypal there are other escrow services. if ebay is not to your liking there are other sources. competition is there as well...
strange, works well for me. last month I ebayed bunch of old PC parts that didn't sell on craigs and have quite some funds on my PP account. part of it is actually already gone paying for some kits. and if you so much against paypal there are other escrow services. if ebay is not to your liking there are other sources. competition is there as well...
ALCOS4EVER
Member
Tankist -
The reason I removed my post is because I could feel myself getting upset about this topic. I realized peoples opinions on this topic are polarized and further input is a waste of time and wasn't serving any useful purpose. Being a glutton for punishment I will make one more comment.
Regarding your reply calling my comment about returning to scratch building being "laughable". Yes they have made TOY trains from the beginning of the railroads some very crude. Model railroading advanced because of peoples interest. Model railroading grew because because of availability of products. Availability grew because of the model railroad press and HOBBY SHOPS where people could see touch and learn about the hobby and products. Many model railroad hobby shop owners, manufacturers and suppliers are in the business because they love the hobby they barely make a profit and most can not make a living from it. No hobby shops means mass marketing. Mass marketing means profit. Profit means your model railroading choices are made by accountants NOT model railroaders. If you want to stifle growth and selection let's go down the business road and see what happens, and by the way no one hopes they're more dead wrong than me.
The reason I removed my post is because I could feel myself getting upset about this topic. I realized peoples opinions on this topic are polarized and further input is a waste of time and wasn't serving any useful purpose. Being a glutton for punishment I will make one more comment.
Regarding your reply calling my comment about returning to scratch building being "laughable". Yes they have made TOY trains from the beginning of the railroads some very crude. Model railroading advanced because of peoples interest. Model railroading grew because because of availability of products. Availability grew because of the model railroad press and HOBBY SHOPS where people could see touch and learn about the hobby and products. Many model railroad hobby shop owners, manufacturers and suppliers are in the business because they love the hobby they barely make a profit and most can not make a living from it. No hobby shops means mass marketing. Mass marketing means profit. Profit means your model railroading choices are made by accountants NOT model railroaders. If you want to stifle growth and selection let's go down the business road and see what happens, and by the way no one hopes they're more dead wrong than me.
Motley
Active Member
Very good post Alco. I agree with you whole heartedly. Without the ability to touch and feel model railroad products before purchasing would stifle the hobby. I just can't imagine making a big purchase on something I can only see pictures of online.
Not only that, but browsing the LHS is the funnest activity. I mean there are just so many cool things that I see just walking around the store. There's no way that can be done while shopping online.
By purchasing items with the only criteria is to find the "cheapest" prices is exactly why we have the production in China. And the quality from Chinese products....STINKS.
Not only that, but browsing the LHS is the funnest activity. I mean there are just so many cool things that I see just walking around the store. There's no way that can be done while shopping online.
By purchasing items with the only criteria is to find the "cheapest" prices is exactly why we have the production in China. And the quality from Chinese products....STINKS.
ALCOS4EVER
Member
You're right I would much rather focus on the train show I am going to this weekend. I don't want to go off topic but there is a very nice display only, no vendor show on Sunday the 7TH in Bedford, NH. The "Bedford Boomers" show. About fifteen or twenty nice layouts and many displays. It's been going on for over twenty five years. Stop by if you're in the area.
For me supporting my local shop has nothing to do with price. Rather, it's strictly about selection of stuff to buy. No shop can stock everything in the Walther's catalog (or from any other supplier) however most shops will order stuff for you. When I get that from a shop I say no thanks - I can order it online and have it shipped straight to my house thereby not having to make a trip to pick up just a few bucks worth of stuff. As to saving tax and gas for the car versus shipping costs - it all is a wash when you come right down to it.
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