ModelRailroadForums.com is a free
Model Railroad Discussion Forum and
photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Online since 2002, it's one of the oldest and largest model railroad forums on the web. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.
So - I work in an old (1860's) house in the town (Bath, ME) I live in. We use the bedrooms as offices. Its very nice. Part of our strategic vision is to buy the building from its current owner as he retires and my business grows. Tonight, the basement lights were on so, for the first time, I went downstairs...
Its 20 x 30 of beautiful space waiting to be turned into a railroad! But, there's a little water. Nothing that would scare an engineer but enough to warrant a sump pump in the spring.
So - there have to be basement layouts that deal with some water: how much is too much?
Visible is way too much. Target is 50% relative humidity. Invest in a dehumidifier and a condensate pump.
sigh. even in the channels around the slab?
The channels should be draining into the sump. What I really should have said is "standing". Pickup a digital hyrdometer and measure the humidity, since it's actually the amount of water suspended in the air and not on the floor or walls that matters.
Will do, thank you. There are not a lot of unoccupied spaces this big in my world!
If there are channels around the basement slab leading to a sump reservoir with a pump, that basement has a history of getting a lot of water. I don't know how much water but it's not unusual for leaky basements to be overwhelmed by a strong storm and have several feet of standing water. The humidity is certainly a consideration but the first thing I'd ascertain is the possibility of flooding. Find out what you can from the current owner and anyone else that knows something about the house how often the basement has been flooded with standing water. You can deal with high humidity but even a few feet of water in the basement will ruin everything on the floor and walls up to the level of the flood and promote the growth of mold overnight. This can be a serious health issue as well as destroy a lot of your scenery and wood structures you have on the layout. It won't be too good for benchwork either. I hate to be a wet blanket
)) but I've seen layouts ruined by less than a foot of standing water.
Jim,
My house has a sump reservoir/pump, it came with our 28yr-old house. I can hear it run sporadically whenever we get any prolonged rainfall. The channel between the laundry room and the garage gets damp, but we haven't had any flooding issues [yet
]. So, hopefully the sump system in Rig's basement doesn't mean floods are a foregone conclusion.
Some preventive "planning-for-the-worst" measures could might include:
1) Use
metal or some other non-wood material for your benchwork, at least for the legs if not the whole frame;
2) Keep all your electrical wiring off the floor;
3) Have a
backup battery power supply for your sump pump in case a power outage occurs during a heavy downpour. A friend of mine learned this lesson the hard way
...
Something I have never seen mentioned here that goes along with any basement layout is Radon gas. Anyone who has a basement layout should get their space tested for Radon and have it mitigated if necessary. A basement with a sump may also allow radon into the room (as is the case in my parents house) but it can also seep in through seems in the concrete.
If this is the case, how do the G scale outdoor layouts get away with being however humid it might be that day and also endure rain, sleet, and snow, and even ice?
Thanks for the input, guys. As a starting point I am a couple of years away from digging into the "someday" layout so I will have a chance to monitor the situation. The guy who owns the building, with whom I work daily, has been there 25 years or so - he'll know. Fortunately, the house is at the top of a hill so there is little saturation in the surrounding soil. We'll see what's what.
Radon - I hadn't even considered that. I'll have it check out whether I build in that space or not. The slab is very very well done and relatively modern (of course, Diesel locomotives are relatively modern compared to this house) so its possible that there are radon traps under the concrete.
I've commented before comparing this board to sailinganarchy - my summertime haunt - but I'll say it again: this board rocks, thank you.
I don't know how you are fixed for cash over the next while, but I would get an expert in there to assess the overall tenure of the basement area in terms of hydrology. If a good sized dehumidifier will keep the relative humidity below 70% on reeeeeeaaaaaalllllyyy bad days, you should be okay. Between 50-66% is ideal as a range, particularly for mold and mildew control....they could be a lot worse than radon-daughter damage over a much shorter term, and for your purposes if using plant materials.
Then, the money part- get a proper vapour barrier installed, including under a proper floor, and leave access to the sump (the verdict may suggest another one someplace!). With a proper sealant on the concrete, vapour barriers, and flooring, plus a modest dehumidifier, and sump control, you should be exactly fine.
Hi Rigby,
One sure way you can tell how much standing water has ever been in the basement is to check for discolored water markings on the walls, assuming they're concrete which I imagine they are being that the building is as old as you say. That will tell the story for sure if there has been any serious flooding.
As to the fact you have some water there at present would indicate some sort of a leak, needless to say, now what you need to assertain is if that water is comming from above or ground water comming in from below?
Being on the top of a hill is a good point and thing but what is the elevation of the suround area in compareson to your location? Also if that particular location in the pasement has been wet as it is in past year as well could possibly suggest either poor drainage in the soil or a structural leak of one type or another from above? I could be as simple as having drip flashings installed between the basement and upper floor sills oreven nust calking around the widows above that area as they may be allowing rain water to enter the walls and eventually runs into the basement.
Good luck solving the problem,
David
Ps: Here is one site I found that seems to have a lot of information about Radon but it also seems highly technical as it meant for professionals in the field.
Rigby and I aren't that far apart -- we've just had a week of rain so the channel water didn't surprise me. A lot of other good points were made, especially having the battery backup on the sump pump. I had completely forgotten about radon -- our basement tested negative 12 years ago when we bought the house and again 2 years ago when I retested it. Radon test kits are easy to get, available at both Lowes and Home Depot.
when we bought our house we got water evertime it rained or an amimal peed in the yard! i corrected the problem with corectly installled gutters and down spouts and a little regradeing of the yard. havent had a drop since and am now proceeding with finishing the basement with no further actions. i even removed and concreted in the sump pump hole.
however i still installed a 4 mill plastic vapor barrier on the walls, as so if i did get some "dampness" mold wouldnt grow on the fiberglass insulation
Ryan
If this is the case, how do the G scale outdoor layouts get away with being however humid it might be that day and also endure rain, sleet, and snow, and even ice?
The true outdoor engines, such as the ones by LGB, are designed for moisture. They're designed to be weatherproof. They're also quite sturdy and heavy. I've got an LGB Forney, which is a 2-4-4, and actually a relatively small and short locomotive. It weighs nearly 8 pounds! That's quality construction. They're also priced accordingly. (I bought mine used on Ebay, and it was still probably the most expensive loco I've ever bought...)
Most model railroad products are designed for indoor use, and while they can tolerate some moisture in the air, they do better in more reasonable conditions.
when we bought our house we got water evertime it rained or an amimal peed in the yard! i corrected the problem with corectly installled gutters and down spouts and a little regradeing of the yard...
We did this exact thing on our old century home (read: no sump system at all). The gutter overflow was a big problem.
The other major issue was melting snow - careful re-org of snowbanks in winter fixed that problem.
Mark
There are systems and solutions out there for just about any basement. Some are simple and inexpensive, like a bit of re-grading and/or making sure the gutters can drain properly.
Solutions go up from there, with sumps and dehumidifiers, and go way up to where they seal the walls and put in pump systems and empty all of the moisture from your basement. (And all the money from your bank account).
The question isn't whether it can be done, but whether it's affordable and worth the expense for your particular situation.
i got an estimate for a sump system and drain and perimiter wall drains ect and they wanted almost 10,000 dollars! as a former general contractor myself, i almost fell over! that just seemed crazy to break the floor and put a drain in and a sump pump....and cement it back in. i really wanted this but didnt want to do it my self either.
Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website
(Learn More Here)
