How can I clean an open frame motor? (UPDATED)

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Colorado Midland Modeler

Colorado Midland Modeler

Proudly modeling the CM, MT & SL in HO Scale
I have an HO scale United/PFM UP 6200 class 2-8-0 with an open frame motor that I can't keep clean at all. I use techniques that work on all of my other engines' motors, but this one won't stay clean, it's like it's completely soaked in oil. I'm taking this engine apart at least once a month weather I run it frequently or not. I go to run it, and it stinks bad of oil and will barely run, immediately after I clean it, it's fine, but it doesn't last long. I've never even oiled this engine, and I know it's not coming from the gears because it has an enclosed gearbox. Does anyone have any ideas on how to clean this motor and where the oil could be coming from? Or, am I better off replacing the motor altogether? Thanks! (This is the engine, lettered as Gorre & Daphetid 26) P.S. If this is the wrong place for this, please move it to the appropriate place. Thanks!
PFM Gorre & Daphetid 26 (My model) (7).jpg
 
Hello!
I am still learning but have repaired a quite a few locomotives of mine (As well as some for a friend.).
I have never heard of anything like this. 😕
I sort of need to know how you cleaned it.
Since it is a open frame motor, it can quite literally be taken apart (But you probably already know that). Did you remove the brushes so you can clean the motor commutator? This is where the oily smell would more likely be coming from.

Let me know what you've done so far and I will see if I can help. 👍

BTW; I love your models. I like locomotive kitbashing, so seeing these is very inspiring. The Gorre & Daphetid... RIP John Allen. His layout was amazing.
 
TheXModelRailroader said:
Hello!
I am still learning but have repaired a quite a few locomotives of mine (As well as some for a friend.).
I have never heard of anything like this. 😕
I sort of need to know how you cleaned it.
Since it is a open frame motor, it can quite literally be taken apart (But you probably already know that). Did you remove the brushes so you can clean the motor commutator? This is where the oily smell would more likely be coming from.

Let me know what you've done so far and I will see if I can help. 👍

BTW; I love your models. I like locomotive kitbashing, so seeing these is very inspiring. The Gorre & Daphetid... RIP John Allen. His layout was amazing.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for the compliments! I have two other G&D tribute engines, I posted a thread with them not that long ago that you would probably enjoy. You can find it here: https://modelrailroadforums.com/for...daphetid-tributes-locomotives-cars-etc.37463/ Now, to the problem at hand, I've never had anything like this either, it's very frustrating.🤬 I've taken it apart quite a few times, actually. I normally clean the brushes with a dry q-tip, and I clean the commutator with a dry q-tip or one dipped in 70% isopropyl alcohol, depending on how dirty it is. I've even tried 91% on this one a few times, and the same problem keeps coming back. The last time I cleaned it, I tried CRC electronic cleaner (plastic safe) at the suggestion of a hobby shop that does repairs I found in the directory of Model Railroader magazine, and it was no better (or worse) than the 70% or 91% isopropyl alcohol. I'm at a loss on this one, nothing else seems to have this problem, just this engine.
 


Colorado Midland Modeler said:
Thank you very much for the compliments! I have two other G&D tribute engines, I posted a thread with them not that long ago that you would probably enjoy. You can find it here: https://modelrailroadforums.com/for...daphetid-tributes-locomotives-cars-etc.37463/ Now, to the problem at hand, I've never had anything like this either, it's very frustrating.🤬 I've taken it apart quite a few times, actually. I normally clean the brushes with a dry q-tip, and I clean the commutator with a dry q-tip or one dipped in 70% isopropyl alcohol, depending on how dirty it is. I've even tried 91% on this one a few times, and the same problem keeps coming back. The last time I cleaned it, I tried CRC electronic cleaner (plastic safe) at the suggestion of a hobby shop that does repairs I found in the directory of Model Railroader magazine, and it was no better (or worse) than the 70% or 91% isopropyl alcohol. I'm at a loss on this one, nothing else seems to have this problem, just this engine.
Click to expand...
Thanks for pointing me to that post, I will take a look!
Man. It does sound like you tried everything. 🫤
So at this point I would recommend getting a new motor. Even if you cant get the ideal one you are maybe looking for, just getting another to test it will help (Because we want to be sure its not anything else.)
Keep in mind it does not need to be the original motor, if you can fabricate a mount (It will depend on the model).

I usually get mine from china (while we can anyway).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2728398352...Delgrm0ANyPjhImo6JIdB/FQ==|tkp:Bk9SR5Kqq7O-ZQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969902693...JuVRf9UbLVTNCCCdkmA5ssQw==|tkp:Bk9SR5Kqq7O-ZQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3324870559...GlfGZe1d/XHOP3AyWELxrk3rY=|tkp:Bk9SR56vrLO-ZQ

Wish I could help more, But this one is a puzzle. 🤔
 
Colorado Midland Modeler said:
I have an HO scale United/PFM UP 6200 class 2-8-0 with an open frame motor that I can't keep clean at all. I use techniques that work on all of my other engines' motors, but this one won't stay clean, it's like it's completely soaked in oil. I'm taking this engine apart at least once a month weather I run it frequently or not. I go to run it, and it stinks bad of oil and will barely run, immediately after I clean it, it's fine, but it doesn't last long. I've never even oiled this engine, and I know it's not coming from the gears because it has an enclosed gearbox. Does anyone have any ideas on how to clean this motor and where the oil could be coming from?
Click to expand...
I have to wonder if the motor armature wasn't soaked in oil at some point in time, and the windings sucked up the oil like a dry sponge. You might try dropping the entire motor in a small container with enough mineral spirits to cover the entire motor and let it sit overnight. Mineral spirits is a truly great grease and oil dissolver, safe for metal and virtually all plastics, and won't hurt your motor in the least. It should permeate into the windings and help dissolve and draw out any residual oil that may have soaked into the windings. After taking the motor out, dry it off and lightly blow it out with some compressed air. Set it in front of a small fan for awhile for further drying. When satisfied, lightly oil the bearings, then reinstall the motor and see what happens over the course of a month. If it fixes the problem, great. Or if you think it could use some more soaking, try it all over again.

That's all I can think of. Hope this helps. If doing this doesn't work, then I'm at a loss as to where all the oil would be coming from. 🤔
 
Mixed Freight You made some good points. I have watched Classic model trains (With Ron) on YouTube and he always uses mineral spirts on oily parts. Give it a try.
boatwrench, That is exactly what I meant! You could take any of the motors I suggested (Or one similar) and mount it with a little glue or adhesive. Very good video. I shall keep it in mind for further reference.

Colorado Midland Modeler, on another note. Did you know Roundhouse models made some sort of tribute cars for the The Gorre & Daphetid? I only found this out recently, and for a moment I wondered if the railway wasn't fictional. But it is. How have I never heard of these? Are they rare?
 


Once upon a time, model train manufacturers would produce a run of/for a fictional or club railroad. I’ve owned several pieces of rolling stock like that, and I know there are some commercially produced locomotives for model railroads.

www.ebay.com

Athearn - HO Scale - 33587 - Tony Koester's Midland Road - Hopper - NMRA Legends | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Athearn - HO Scale - 33587 - Tony Koester's Midland Road - Hopper - NMRA Legends at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
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bnsf971 said:
Once upon a time, model train manufacturers would produce a run of/for a fictional or club railroad. I’ve owned several pieces of rolling stock like that, and I know there are some commercially produced locomotives for model railroads.

www.ebay.com

Athearn - HO Scale - 33587 - Tony Koester's Midland Road - Hopper - NMRA Legends | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Athearn - HO Scale - 33587 - Tony Koester's Midland Road - Hopper - NMRA Legends at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
That is so cool! Learn something new everyday...
 
D&J RailRoad said:
Seeing as that's an oil burning model..... Ahhh, never mind that.
Are the armatures of the motor getting oil on them too or just the commutators?
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The commutator is the worst part, but I clean it off of the armature as well.
TheXModelRailroader said:
Thanks for pointing me to that post, I will take a look!
Man. It does sound like you tried everything. 🫤
So at this point I would recommend getting a new motor. Even if you cant get the ideal one you are maybe looking for, just getting another to test it will help (Because we want to be sure its not anything else.)
Keep in mind it does not need to be the original motor, if you can fabricate a mount (It will depend on the model).
Click to expand...
I've considered that, I just wanted to see if it could be fixed first.
Mixed Freight said:
I have to wonder if the motor armature wasn't soaked in oil at some point in time, and the windings sucked up the oil like a dry sponge. You might try dropping the entire motor in a small container with enough mineral spirits to cover the entire motor and let it sit overnight. Mineral spirits is a truly great grease and oil dissolver, safe for metal and virtually all plastics, and won't hurt your motor in the least. It should permeate into the windings and help dissolve and draw out any residual oil that may have soaked into the windings. After taking the motor out, dry it off and lightly blow it out with some compressed air. Set it in front of a small fan for awhile for further drying. When satisfied, lightly oil the bearings, then reinstall the motor and see what happens over the course of a month. If it fixes the problem, great. Or if you think it could use some more soaking, try it all over again.

That's all I can think of. Hope this helps. If doing this doesn't work, then I'm at a loss as to where all the oil would be coming from. 🤔
Click to expand...
That's an interesting thought, I'll have to think about that.
boatwrench said:
I recommend replacing the motor. Plenty of videos on you tube like this one

Good luck and have fun. I always enjoy completing a project and seeing it better than when I started.
Click to expand...
I just bookmarked the link you gave me thanks!
TheXModelRailroader said:
Colorado Midland Modeler, on another note. Did you know Roundhouse models made some sort of tribute cars for the The Gorre & Daphetid? I only found this out recently, and for a moment I wondered if the railway wasn't fictional. But it is. How have I never heard of these? Are they rare?
Click to expand...
Yes, I actually have one of the livestock cars that they made. I think they're fairly common, I frequently see them on ebay.
 
TheXModelRailroader said:
Well, hopefully this gives you some options. 👍 I will stick around for a update. Good luck!
Click to expand...
I removed the motor from the engine yesterday, (I've never had it completely out of the engine before) and the bottom of the motor, the rubber pad between the motor and the mounting bracket, and the bracket itself were all completely soaked in oil. The armature and commutator are both very oily, and so is the entire motor frame. Interestingly, the axels, gear box and side rods don't have much oil on them, and the wheels are quite clean. I think it's exactly as Mixed Freight said, at some point the whole motor must have been soaked in oil and it sucked it up like a sponge. Based on the viscosity of the oil, as well as the smell of it, I think whoever had it before me must have sprayed the motor with something like WD-40. It was a Christmas gift a couple of years ago, so I don't know where it came from. So, I've decided to replace the motor. I don't have anything that will fit in my parts inventory, so I took some measurements and I'm going to go hunting for one. I'll let you all know what I come up with. Thanks everybody for your help!
 
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