Ho or N scale?
- Thread starter joed2323
- Start date
ModelRailroadForums.com is a free Model Railroad Discussion Forum and photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Online since 2002, it's one of the oldest and largest model railroad forums on the web. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.
LOL!! It's an addiction! You'll start small, (partial basement), then want to add one more industry, ("yeah, that looks good there"), (didn't take up that much room), then a branch line to service the quarry in the corner, (oh YEAH! still got some room left), this is lookin' really good!!! Hmmmm.....now if I put a floor to ceiling mountain with a hidden helix up to the living room......
Nothing against big rectangular layouts - they have their place. And my N-scale layout is on a rectangular door, so...
These are my dislikes re: rectangular layouts:
Although 36 sq feet is still 36 sq feet whether in a square or donut, rectangles are inconvenient to locate - they either chew up the middle of a room or you need to butt them into a corner or against a wall. Shelf layouts go into corners too, but to me they seem less obtrusive and you can always add a peninsula if you want to use the middle of the room.
With a 4X8, your broadest curve will be about 22-inches radius. That gives you 2 inches of space between the curve and the edge of the layout. Ok for N but not for HO in my opinion. A shelf can give you broader curves, plus you'll see them (probably) from the inside which looks less tight than seeing them from the outside on a 4X8.
You can't access the back of a square unless it's away from the wall - so it's stuck back toward the center of the room. 2 feet is about my max comfortable reach when working on or operating a layout.
With a shelf, you can use all manual turnout throws. With a square, you need remotes for the unaccessible backside.
Shelf layouts can be built as modules for easy moving and / or rebuilding of sections. Try hauling a scenicked 4X8 up a flight of stairs and you'll see what I mean.
Modular layouts like the HOG are expandable by inserting modules. Much harder to expand a 4x8 IMO.
4X8s typically need a viewblock down the center so you're not watching a long train chase its own caboose or EOT.
Now here are the "buts": When I say donut or shelf, I mean maximum depths of 30 inches with 24 being more usual. There are some spectacular rectangular layouts out there and the owners have come up with some inventive ways of dealing with the dislikes I mentioned above. I once did a 4X7 in HO - I personally would not go rectangular again with HO (or larger).
Just my opinions - it's YOUR railroad to do with as YOU please - and I'll shut up now so the rectangle fans can give you the other side of the debate.
Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)
Littlefoot14
Active Member
Ok so lets cover some bases first and foremost.
Currently HO scale is the dominant scale being modeled in our hobby. There are hundreds of manufactuers and thousands and thousands of models to choose from in HO scale. Besides there being lots of available stuff for the scale, generally its one of the cheaper scales to model. Compared to O scale or G scale, where engines can easily go over $300 quickly, you can get into a top of the line HO scale engine with DCC and Sound for alittle over $250. Aside from that, a high quality car can often be found for between $10 and $25. An average brand new locomotive in HO is often around $100 from the manufactuers. A few acceptions to the rule however are Bachmann Trains (non-Spectrum Line), Life- Like trains (non- Proto 1k/2k), and similar quality models, which are often under $50 for a locomotive. These models often have less details and are not as good runners as there more expensive counterparts. With a larger size for manufactuers to work with, often means more detail which relates to better looking models.
N scale has a rising presence in the hobby. Its appealing to modelers because of its size. It is approximately half the size of HO, which means you can fit twice the railroad into the same space. While N scale doesnt have the majority of modelers following it, its on the rise. Manufactuers are producing the same stuff in N as in HO and it often costs less. Most of the locomotives in N scale can be had for under $50 to well over $100. While the is certainly less available in N scale, that is changing and im going to guess that within the next 10 yrs, N scale details/availabily of models will be on par with HO scale. Currently though, due to N scale small size, it often means less detail.
Besides available space being a huge limiting factor, but there is some physical factors that come into play too. If you have pretty steady hands and are comfortable using them in small spaces, N scale might work for you. Also, how good are your eyes? Youll need to be able to focus on what your doing. In the area where you could only build a small HO scale switching layout, you could build a decent sized N scale layout. On a standard 4x8 HO layout, you may only be able to get a few loops of track in. You could have a small empire in N scale.
How much space do you have available?
Will this be your first layout?
What time period would you like to model?
Any ideas what period you would like to model?
Answer these and i can help out alittle bit more.
Currently HO scale is the dominant scale being modeled in our hobby. There are hundreds of manufactuers and thousands and thousands of models to choose from in HO scale. Besides there being lots of available stuff for the scale, generally its one of the cheaper scales to model. Compared to O scale or G scale, where engines can easily go over $300 quickly, you can get into a top of the line HO scale engine with DCC and Sound for alittle over $250. Aside from that, a high quality car can often be found for between $10 and $25. An average brand new locomotive in HO is often around $100 from the manufactuers. A few acceptions to the rule however are Bachmann Trains (non-Spectrum Line), Life- Like trains (non- Proto 1k/2k), and similar quality models, which are often under $50 for a locomotive. These models often have less details and are not as good runners as there more expensive counterparts. With a larger size for manufactuers to work with, often means more detail which relates to better looking models.
N scale has a rising presence in the hobby. Its appealing to modelers because of its size. It is approximately half the size of HO, which means you can fit twice the railroad into the same space. While N scale doesnt have the majority of modelers following it, its on the rise. Manufactuers are producing the same stuff in N as in HO and it often costs less. Most of the locomotives in N scale can be had for under $50 to well over $100. While the is certainly less available in N scale, that is changing and im going to guess that within the next 10 yrs, N scale details/availabily of models will be on par with HO scale. Currently though, due to N scale small size, it often means less detail.
Besides available space being a huge limiting factor, but there is some physical factors that come into play too. If you have pretty steady hands and are comfortable using them in small spaces, N scale might work for you. Also, how good are your eyes? Youll need to be able to focus on what your doing. In the area where you could only build a small HO scale switching layout, you could build a decent sized N scale layout. On a standard 4x8 HO layout, you may only be able to get a few loops of track in. You could have a small empire in N scale.
How much space do you have available?
Will this be your first layout?
What time period would you like to model?
Any ideas what period you would like to model?
Answer these and i can help out alittle bit more.
TMLW
Thunder Mt. Loco Works
Easy.... both! I have a LOT of HO scale, but do not have the room for a layout of my own at this time. I started in N scale about 15 years ago as a kid and still have that first layout that I built with my dad even though its in storage. I am currently working on a switching layout in N scale in the space that I have for it. If you don't have a lot of room, your going to get more layout in a small space. However, with HO, you can get a lot more detailed.
Selector
Well-Known Member
Such decisions are best synthesized from the following factors:
Budget
Availability of suitable items for use in your scale
Availability of suitable items for use as RTR or kitbashing fodder if you elect to actually model a given railroad
Space available
Constraints and limitations to the use of space due to encroachments or obstacles (doorways, beams, windows, shared use of the room and with whom)
Your physical limitations: bad back, bad eyesight, arthritic or large hands, sore joints
These are the critical factors that determine how successfully you will be able to enjoy your efforts and expenditures of both time and cash.
Some men are able to enjoy N scale well into their 60's, a very few after that...but it happens. Most of us find that we have to up-size by at least one scale by the time we reach 55-60. We need more light and larger details to appreciate the whole effect we want to generate. Of course, if one's space doesn't expand, it means the approach to modelling will have to be altered. Tighter curves, fewer of them, smaller switching style layouts instead of those with sweeping curves and grand vistas.
Takes some hard-nosed thinking up front.
-Crandell
Budget
Availability of suitable items for use in your scale
Availability of suitable items for use as RTR or kitbashing fodder if you elect to actually model a given railroad
Space available
Constraints and limitations to the use of space due to encroachments or obstacles (doorways, beams, windows, shared use of the room and with whom)
Your physical limitations: bad back, bad eyesight, arthritic or large hands, sore joints
These are the critical factors that determine how successfully you will be able to enjoy your efforts and expenditures of both time and cash.
Some men are able to enjoy N scale well into their 60's, a very few after that...but it happens. Most of us find that we have to up-size by at least one scale by the time we reach 55-60. We need more light and larger details to appreciate the whole effect we want to generate. Of course, if one's space doesn't expand, it means the approach to modelling will have to be altered. Tighter curves, fewer of them, smaller switching style layouts instead of those with sweeping curves and grand vistas.
Takes some hard-nosed thinking up front.
-Crandell
My layout will be in the basement, i would like to use a section or corner of the basement. I want to start with atlest 4x8 or a L-shaped layout.
This will be my second layout, I had a decent or a beginers layout when i was younger and never finished! I have basic knowledge.
I want to make a layout relating to either the new york and long branch line that runs through new jersey, or i would like to model the train system in upper michigan, soo line/ cn railway.
time - around 1950s era i think, im having a tough time deciding if i want modern or 1950s era type layout
This will be my second layout, I had a decent or a beginers layout when i was younger and never finished! I have basic knowledge.
I want to make a layout relating to either the new york and long branch line that runs through new jersey, or i would like to model the train system in upper michigan, soo line/ cn railway.
time - around 1950s era i think, im having a tough time deciding if i want modern or 1950s era type layout
Littlefoot14
Active Member
Given the circumstance, id go with N scale.
Why? Funny you should ask...
4x8 in HO is only going to get you pretty much minimum radius in the turns of 18 inches. You simply wont be able to run the big steamers of the 50's very well. Even if you take the modern route, you will not be able to run stuff like Autoracks, 89ft Box cars, and other big cars that run the rails in the modern era. Keep in mind N scale has twice the modeling oppurtunity than HO in the same area. That means twice as broad curves, allowing for the bigger cars.
Why? Funny you should ask...
4x8 in HO is only going to get you pretty much minimum radius in the turns of 18 inches. You simply wont be able to run the big steamers of the 50's very well. Even if you take the modern route, you will not be able to run stuff like Autoracks, 89ft Box cars, and other big cars that run the rails in the modern era. Keep in mind N scale has twice the modeling oppurtunity than HO in the same area. That means twice as broad curves, allowing for the bigger cars.
Beachbum
Member
I'm with TMLW - I have an HO shelf switcher and an N-scale "roundy-round" on a hollow core door.
I have a full basement but I don't feel like putting the time or money into finishing it for a decent train room.
Each scale has advantages and disadvantages. Maybe you ought to make a list and compare? That might help clarify your thinking a bit anyway.
Nice division point yard in Gladstone in the UP - ex-Soo, ex-WC, now CN. Easy to model and even has (had) a turntable...
I have a full basement but I don't feel like putting the time or money into finishing it for a decent train room.
Each scale has advantages and disadvantages. Maybe you ought to make a list and compare? That might help clarify your thinking a bit anyway.
Nice division point yard in Gladstone in the UP - ex-Soo, ex-WC, now CN. Easy to model and even has (had) a turntable...
Last edited by a moderator:
I know i will have to make alot of compromises, because it would be hard to incorporate all the stations.
How do i go about picking what train lines to run in the upper michigan? theres the old soo line and the cn railroad i believe.
I want to have gladstone and a few other towns in my layout, do i flip i coin and pick and choose? sorry im still a newb at this
How do i go about picking what train lines to run in the upper michigan? theres the old soo line and the cn railroad i believe.
I want to have gladstone and a few other towns in my layout, do i flip i coin and pick and choose? sorry im still a newb at this
Beachbum
Member
Since you don't want to use the whole basement, is there any way you could do a shelf layout, preferably an around the walls or a donut? (downside is you'd need a duckunder or such) 4X8s have their uses but I think you'd have much more operating and scenery potential with an around-the-walls, especially if you're in HO. I think trying to fit even one compressed yard on a 4X8 would be tough to do unless you go N-scale
Check the Yahoo group "Heart of Georgia" for an idea of what I mean.
I grew up in GLadstone BTW, so I know the yard pretty well although it's been a good ten years since I've been up there. Even have a pair of Kato N-scale WC SD45s since I once considered modleing that yard.
Check the Yahoo group "Heart of Georgia" for an idea of what I mean.
I grew up in GLadstone BTW, so I know the yard pretty well although it's been a good ten years since I've been up there. Even have a pair of Kato N-scale WC SD45s since I once considered modleing that yard.
Last edited by a moderator:
trainmastr1
CEO- CV&WRR
LOL!! It's an addiction! You'll start small, (partial basement), then want to add one more industry, ("yeah, that looks good there"), (didn't take up that much room), then a branch line to service the quarry in the corner, (oh YEAH! still got some room left), this is lookin' really good!!! Hmmmm.....now if I put a floor to ceiling mountain with a hidden helix up to the living room......
jeffrey-wimberly
Dr Frankendiesel
Which one do you feel more comfortable with and would best suit what you want to do? For me I had to decide on several factors. N Scale was out because I can't handle the small models anymore, so the choice was down to O or HO. O Scale would certainly be much easier for me to handle but to get it into the amount of space I have without looking like a toy and all crammed together would be nearly impossible not to mention the cost involved. So it came to HO as a compromise between the space available, ease of handling, detail-ability and expense.
trainmastr1
CEO- CV&WRR
Shelf around the walls is very doable I would think. You could also consider a multi- level that way. Another aspect to consider would be if you wanted to concentrate more on scenery (mountains, canyons, rivers), or more on operation. (industrial switching, yard moves). Of course you can do both..
jdetray
Well-Known Member
Actually, N-scale gives you MORE than twice the railroad of HO-scale in the same amount of space. That's because a layout's size is measured by its area, not simply one linear dimension.
For example, if you build a 4 x 8 layout in N-scale and wanted to re-create it in HO, the HO layout would have to be 7.36 x 14.71. That's 32 square feet for the N-scale layout and more than 108 square feet in HO. The HO layout requires 3.38 times as much area as N-scale for the same layout.
As another example, a 4 x 8 HO layout can be built in 2.175 x 4.35 in N-scale. The HO layout occupies 32 square feet, where the same layout in N-scale occupies just 9.46 square feet.
And of course, everyone knows that "N-Scale" is simply an abbreviation for "Normal Scale."
- Jeff
For example, if you build a 4 x 8 layout in N-scale and wanted to re-create it in HO, the HO layout would have to be 7.36 x 14.71. That's 32 square feet for the N-scale layout and more than 108 square feet in HO. The HO layout requires 3.38 times as much area as N-scale for the same layout.
As another example, a 4 x 8 HO layout can be built in 2.175 x 4.35 in N-scale. The HO layout occupies 32 square feet, where the same layout in N-scale occupies just 9.46 square feet.
And of course, everyone knows that "N-Scale" is simply an abbreviation for "Normal Scale."
- Jeff
Last edited by a moderator:
Beachbum
Member
Nothing against big rectangular layouts - they have their place. And my N-scale layout is on a rectangular door, so...
These are my dislikes re: rectangular layouts:
Although 36 sq feet is still 36 sq feet whether in a square or donut, rectangles are inconvenient to locate - they either chew up the middle of a room or you need to butt them into a corner or against a wall. Shelf layouts go into corners too, but to me they seem less obtrusive and you can always add a peninsula if you want to use the middle of the room.
With a 4X8, your broadest curve will be about 22-inches radius. That gives you 2 inches of space between the curve and the edge of the layout. Ok for N but not for HO in my opinion. A shelf can give you broader curves, plus you'll see them (probably) from the inside which looks less tight than seeing them from the outside on a 4X8.
You can't access the back of a square unless it's away from the wall - so it's stuck back toward the center of the room. 2 feet is about my max comfortable reach when working on or operating a layout.
With a shelf, you can use all manual turnout throws. With a square, you need remotes for the unaccessible backside.
Shelf layouts can be built as modules for easy moving and / or rebuilding of sections. Try hauling a scenicked 4X8 up a flight of stairs and you'll see what I mean.
Modular layouts like the HOG are expandable by inserting modules. Much harder to expand a 4x8 IMO.
4X8s typically need a viewblock down the center so you're not watching a long train chase its own caboose or EOT.
Now here are the "buts": When I say donut or shelf, I mean maximum depths of 30 inches with 24 being more usual. There are some spectacular rectangular layouts out there and the owners have come up with some inventive ways of dealing with the dislikes I mentioned above. I once did a 4X7 in HO - I personally would not go rectangular again with HO (or larger).
Just my opinions - it's YOUR railroad to do with as YOU please - and I'll shut up now so the rectangle fans can give you the other side of the debate.
jdetray is right on but you must remember that when you have the same layout size or footprint that N will be more expensive. On the same layout size with N you will buy more track, scenery, buildings, rolling stock(for those 40 car trains were HO will be about 20), Engines etc... Where you have more room N vs HO you will have more of everything with N. If that is what you want more room to expand in then N is it but if you have the room then HO.
Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)