History of All Kinds
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My late sister loved that book and the movie. I thought it was "lost cause" propaganda. I may not know what I'm talking about. The truth is I never read the entire book or watched the entire movie.
Thanks for all the great posts, David!
No, George Gay flew for TWA after the war, spending over 30 years with that airline. And he flew a Douglas TBD Devastator at Midway, not an Avenger. There's an interview with him in the clip below, where the interview was conducted between flights in an airport, still wearing his captain's uniform. He passed away in 1994.
Gay appears at about 4 minutes into the clip:
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Having read extensively on naval history, I have to say I found 2019's "Midway" an awful and disrespectful portrayal of those historic events, almost up there with 2001's "Pearl Harbor." Yes, there are many depictions of things that actually happened, but I think it's overly Hollywoodized to the point where it detracts from the solemnity of history.
Best's run on the Akagi is one of the most ridiculous depictions of dive bombing I've ever seen. Typical bomb release was at 2000-3000 feet, and while in reality Best toggled his at just above 1000', the movie shows it at about mast-height. It's not possible to pull out of a 60-degree dive at that height, and releasing a heavy bomb below a thousand feet in a dive bomber was extremely hazardous as the aircraft would be in the blast zone during pull-out. There were aircraft lost during the war because they were destroyed by their own bomb in similar instances. Plus, the laws of physics are suspended during the scene-- his wingmen release their bombs at about 3000', and we see those impact the water near the carrier. A full 25 seconds after those bombs land, Best is still in his dive. Yes, SBDs have dive brakes that slow them down while in a dive, but not by that much. The later bomb run on Hiryu is just as dumb.
There's other miscellaneous goofs you can find on movie sites, but to me one of the worst offenses is the depiction of certain historic characters. Best was squadron XO, then commander of VB-6 at Midway. McClusky later commanded the carrier USS Corregidor and retired as a rear admiral. Achieving such positions require some degree of leadership in the military. Their respective portrayals as a hotheaded insubordinate and a timid, somewhat indecisive commander, are travesty to the memory of those actual heroes, in my opinion.
Some of the CGI is impressive. I thought the depictions of the TBDs were decent, for a plane that has no existing survivors, down to the tri-color band on the spinner in one scene. But a lot is overdone, from the way overblown flak and unrealistic ship formations, to incorrect weapons loadouts and silly flight physics (hammerhead in an SBD?!). Too much of the battle scenes look like a video game.
I have read Gone with the Wind but only saw the movie once, am looking forward to seeing it again this weekend!
Dave LASM
The 2nd International Radiotelegraphic Convention, which was signed in December 1906, made the Morse code distress signal (· · · – – – · · ·), the standard international maritime distress signal. Even though it was replaced by the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System in 1999, SOS is universally seen as a distress call and is often mistakenly thought to be an abbreviation of Save Our Souls or Save Our Ship.
David
Yes, and I know that storytelling liberties have been taken with movies, books, and media in general for a long time. But here's my issue with a movie like "Midway" (2019). These days, more and more people (young and old alike) seem to readily believe what is put in front of them, whether it be a movie, article, video clip, or whatever. They believe the depiction is mostly "how it happened."
Now, I'm not saying that applies to every movie. We know that the latest Star Wars or super hero movie isn't real. But my problem is with movies that center on--or are entirely based upon--a significant historical event. In my opinion, changing or adding dramatic interpretation to events that are already known is a disservice to the memory of that event in history. It's like filming George Washington crossing the Delaware in a hovercraft. Ten years after that movie comes out, you'll have people saying, "Oh yeah, it's like when Washington crossed the Delaware in a hovercraft!"
If filmmakers want to use dramatic license in storytelling, then make it a fictional story-- or make it a fictional story in a historic context. Examples of this are films like "Dances with Wolves"; "Titanic"; or even "The Dirty Dozen." Don't make a movie about an actual historic event and gussy it up so it looks cool in the movie theater and sells tickets.
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NorthBrit
Well-Known Member
28th June 1914
Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife Sophie were killed by a Bosnian Serb nationalist during an official visit to the Bosnian capital of Sarajevo. The killings sparked a chain of events that led to the outbreak of World War I.
28th June 1919
Exactly five years to the day after Franz Ferdinand's death, Germany and the Allied Powers signed the Treaty of Versailles, officially marking the end of World War I. Although the armistice, signed on 11th November 1918, ended the actual fighting, it took six months of negotiations at the Paris Peace Conference to conclude the peace treaty.
David
Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife Sophie were killed by a Bosnian Serb nationalist during an official visit to the Bosnian capital of Sarajevo. The killings sparked a chain of events that led to the outbreak of World War I.
28th June 1919
Exactly five years to the day after Franz Ferdinand's death, Germany and the Allied Powers signed the Treaty of Versailles, officially marking the end of World War I. Although the armistice, signed on 11th November 1918, ended the actual fighting, it took six months of negotiations at the Paris Peace Conference to conclude the peace treaty.
David
Bruette
Well-Known Member
"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
My late sister loved that book and the movie. I thought it was "lost cause" propaganda. I may not know what I'm talking about. The truth is I never read the entire book or watched the entire movie.Thanks for all the great posts, David!
skyliner
Well-Known Member
No, George Gay flew for TWA after the war, spending over 30 years with that airline. And he flew a Douglas TBD Devastator at Midway, not an Avenger. There's an interview with him in the clip below, where the interview was conducted between flights in an airport, still wearing his captain's uniform. He passed away in 1994.
Gay appears at about 4 minutes into the clip:
Last edited:
skyliner
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Having read extensively on naval history, I have to say I found 2019's "Midway" an awful and disrespectful portrayal of those historic events, almost up there with 2001's "Pearl Harbor." Yes, there are many depictions of things that actually happened, but I think it's overly Hollywoodized to the point where it detracts from the solemnity of history.
Best's run on the Akagi is one of the most ridiculous depictions of dive bombing I've ever seen. Typical bomb release was at 2000-3000 feet, and while in reality Best toggled his at just above 1000', the movie shows it at about mast-height. It's not possible to pull out of a 60-degree dive at that height, and releasing a heavy bomb below a thousand feet in a dive bomber was extremely hazardous as the aircraft would be in the blast zone during pull-out. There were aircraft lost during the war because they were destroyed by their own bomb in similar instances. Plus, the laws of physics are suspended during the scene-- his wingmen release their bombs at about 3000', and we see those impact the water near the carrier. A full 25 seconds after those bombs land, Best is still in his dive. Yes, SBDs have dive brakes that slow them down while in a dive, but not by that much. The later bomb run on Hiryu is just as dumb.
There's other miscellaneous goofs you can find on movie sites, but to me one of the worst offenses is the depiction of certain historic characters. Best was squadron XO, then commander of VB-6 at Midway. McClusky later commanded the carrier USS Corregidor and retired as a rear admiral. Achieving such positions require some degree of leadership in the military. Their respective portrayals as a hotheaded insubordinate and a timid, somewhat indecisive commander, are travesty to the memory of those actual heroes, in my opinion.
Some of the CGI is impressive. I thought the depictions of the TBDs were decent, for a plane that has no existing survivors, down to the tri-color band on the spinner in one scene. But a lot is overdone, from the way overblown flak and unrealistic ship formations, to incorrect weapons loadouts and silly flight physics (hammerhead in an SBD?!). Too much of the battle scenes look like a video game.
Smudge617
Well-Known Member
Invara
"Based on true events"
It's a shortened depiction of the events, and not necessarily a factual representation, and let's be honest, a bomb run at mast height is far more dramatic than at a 1000ft.
Invariably why historical movie's have the disclaimer
"Based on true events"
It's a shortened depiction of the events, and not necessarily a factual representation, and let's be honest, a bomb run at mast height is far more dramatic than at a 1000ft.
logandsawman
Northern Pacific history enthusiast
Funny that, my wife just picked up the movie version on Wednesday, it is one of her favorite stories. She checked out both Gone with the Wind and Music Man."Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
Thanks for all the great posts, David!
I have read Gone with the Wind but only saw the movie once, am looking forward to seeing it again this weekend!
Dave LASM
NorthBrit
Well-Known Member
1st July
1908 SOS is adopted as the International Distress Signal
The 2nd International Radiotelegraphic Convention, which was signed in December 1906, made the Morse code distress signal (· · · – – – · · ·), the standard international maritime distress signal. Even though it was replaced by the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System in 1999, SOS is universally seen as a distress call and is often mistakenly thought to be an abbreviation of Save Our Souls or Save Our Ship.
David
Bruette
Well-Known Member
The Baltimore Colts selected Roger Carr out of Louisiana Tech in the 1st round of the 1974 NFL Draft. The speedy wide receiver was a Baltimore Colt for 8 years (1974-1981); he was credited with 254 pass receptions for 4,770 yards and 29 TDs. He scored his first NFL TD on November 9, 1975, an 89-yard reception that tied the Colts team record. The next week, he and Bert Jones teamed up for a 90-yard TD which set the Baltimore Colts team record for the longest pass reception. Roger Carr’s breakout year was 1976 when he scored 11 TDs and led all NFL receivers in total yards (1,112), yards per reception (25.9), and yards per game (79.4). The following year (1977), he was injured for much of the season and only appeared in 7 games. He came back with solid seasons over the next 4 years (1978-1981), highlighted by his performance in 1980 when he caught 61 passes for 924 yards and 5 TDs.
But in 1982 training camp Roger Carr did not get along with new head coach Frank Kush, who suspended him. Carr asked to be traded and shortly before the 1982 season began, the Colts dealt him to Seattle. He played there for a season and one more season in San Diego (1983), appearing in only 4 games. After Roger’s NFL career ended, he coached football in various schools and community colleges. In Charlotte, NC., he coached high school football and worked with autistic children. After years of experience as a Sunday school teacher, lay minister and special event speaker, Roger began preaching and teaching Sunday school at Chapel by the Sea, in Cherry Grove Beach, SC. He was ordained and installed as pastor of that church in February 2012. "I'm blessed that I got to play in Baltimore," Carr said. "That old stadium would rock. We had some neat times. The Colts were a storied team, and I got to be part of that."
But in 1982 training camp Roger Carr did not get along with new head coach Frank Kush, who suspended him. Carr asked to be traded and shortly before the 1982 season began, the Colts dealt him to Seattle. He played there for a season and one more season in San Diego (1983), appearing in only 4 games. After Roger’s NFL career ended, he coached football in various schools and community colleges. In Charlotte, NC., he coached high school football and worked with autistic children. After years of experience as a Sunday school teacher, lay minister and special event speaker, Roger began preaching and teaching Sunday school at Chapel by the Sea, in Cherry Grove Beach, SC. He was ordained and installed as pastor of that church in February 2012. "I'm blessed that I got to play in Baltimore," Carr said. "That old stadium would rock. We had some neat times. The Colts were a storied team, and I got to be part of that."
skyliner
Well-Known Member
Yes, and I know that storytelling liberties have been taken with movies, books, and media in general for a long time. But here's my issue with a movie like "Midway" (2019). These days, more and more people (young and old alike) seem to readily believe what is put in front of them, whether it be a movie, article, video clip, or whatever. They believe the depiction is mostly "how it happened."
Now, I'm not saying that applies to every movie. We know that the latest Star Wars or super hero movie isn't real. But my problem is with movies that center on--or are entirely based upon--a significant historical event. In my opinion, changing or adding dramatic interpretation to events that are already known is a disservice to the memory of that event in history. It's like filming George Washington crossing the Delaware in a hovercraft. Ten years after that movie comes out, you'll have people saying, "Oh yeah, it's like when Washington crossed the Delaware in a hovercraft!"
If filmmakers want to use dramatic license in storytelling, then make it a fictional story-- or make it a fictional story in a historic context. Examples of this are films like "Dances with Wolves"; "Titanic"; or even "The Dirty Dozen." Don't make a movie about an actual historic event and gussy it up so it looks cool in the movie theater and sells tickets.
Bruette
Well-Known Member
Bruette
Well-Known Member
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