Greeting! New Member needs help with Turnout

[KB02]

Greetings all! As I have done and worked on many things in my life, I have found that forums like these are the best way to figure things out. Hopefully you all will be able to help me with my small problem.

Am I new to Model Railroading? HECK no! Do I have the knowledge level of a newbie? HECK YES! I've had a model train since I was a kid. Most of it's time has been spent in a box under my bed or in a basement or attic. I've got a great O scale set that usually makes it out of the box around Christmas time to run around the tree, but my problem is with my HO set us. I finally own a home where I have a place to set up a real layout AND a friend of mine gave me his old layout that I have been refurbishing. Missing pieces, bent up track, rusted out turnouts, it's been great fun bringing it back to life and I've got my old GP40 running around the whole track, hauling cars and the whole nine yards (and all of this running on the 30 year old controller that came with my first basic oval set when I was a kid).

My problem comes with the turnouts. The layout has 5 turn outs. 4 are electronically controlled (all but one rusted out and only manually operable), and one manual. The manual switch is the one that is causing problems. As long as my forum knowledge serves me well, please see my crude picture of my lay out attached. The BLUE switch is the manual one. When I have it switched to run the main line, the "B" side, everything runs fine. When I switch it to run on the "A" side, the engine comes to a halt - no matter where on the track it is!!

As far as I can tell, everything is perfectly fine with the turnout itself. No rust, no corrosion, no broken wires. There are no turn arounds in the layout, so there should be no issues with revered polarity or anything. I have been searching forums and internet and looking at wiring diagrams and have found nothing yet that answers my problem. Should there be a ground strap connection somewhere that I am missing? Do I need an insulator in one of the connections? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks all!
-Bob

 

[DougC]

Bob: I'll take a stab at this (even though there's a bunch of guys on this forum that are a lot smarter than me).

Sounds like there is (1) a short in switch B only, and/or (2) a short in switch A, and/or a short in your rusted out, only manually operated, electric switch (and/or possibly in one of your four operating electrical switches in conjunction with switch B.) You might try some tests involving combinations of pairs of all three along with changing the routes (throw the switch points). I'm guessing there are no electrical gaps in the rails - one power pack runs the entire layout.

DougC

 

[KB02]

Thanks. Yeah, a short was my first thought, too, but after testing everything with a multi meter, both with the switch in place and pulling it off the track, everything seems check out fine. As far as the rusted out switches, it's only the electric motors themselves that seem to have rusted out, the actual rails are fine (well, at least operable) and, again, check out fine with a multi meter test. I currently only have power to one turn out, and I am beginning the process of restoring/replacing the rest.

Another thing that I forgot to mention is that this problem also seems to be intermittent. Most of the time the problem is there, but then sometimes it is not.

So, I'll go back over everything tonight with a fine tooth comb, looking for gaps, shorts or other oddities, I guess. See where it gets me.

Thanks!
-Bob

 

[HOexplorer]

Just curious here. Is the blue turnout the same make and model as the others? Sometime turnouts can send power only into the turn track (A) and leaves the other track (B) unpowered. Seems like power is on the inside loop and not getting to or through the blue turnout at (A). Trust me, electrics is not my thing and I may be off base, but I would test the blue turnout with three tracks attached off the layout and see if your loco will move through isolated from the loops. (layout) Jim

 

[KB02]

I am fairly certain it is not the same make. I will definitely check that out. Thanks!

 

[tootnkumin]

Once again I am not an electronics expert, but I am wondering if, as most turnout points do, as they slide from side to side, also act as the electrical contacts to carry the track power, it may just be that when turned to the "A" side, one of the point rail's contact is not being made every time, with the effect of losing current to the entire layout, rather than a short circuit.

 

[Rico]

I just had a rail slide ever so slightly and short out on the frog, maybe have a look for that also?

 

[Cjcrescent]

I suspect that it may be a power routing turnout and the only feeders to the track from the power pack is on the outside loop. If this is the case, several sets of feeders need to attached to the tracks on the inside loops. Still even if its not a power routing turnout, any jumper on the inside of the turnout, can be broke, and this causes the same problem. If there is only one set of feeders to the track, you need to add more. Just make sure you don't get them crossed in polarity.

 

[KB02]

The switch in question is a Peco manual turnout.

Looks like Tootnkumin hit it right on this one - or at least appears to have. I took the turn out off the track, took a small nail file and made sure the metal was clean so the rails would make a good connection, put it back on and everything seems to work great.

Now, onto the refurbishing and wiring of the electric turnouts. Two down, two to go.

 

[tootnkumin]

Fingers crossed then, eh

 

[KB02]

I spent the morning making a few changes. I swapped out the manual switch so that it controls the dead end spar. Makes more sense that way. Had to make a few adjustments, but it works better.

Plus, the attached picture shows that my efforts are already paying off. My building buddy seems pretty happy.

 

[KB02]

Okay, one more question. Where is the best place to find a new remote switch for the turnouts? I've been search some of the websites but wonder if my terminology is off or something. I'm really not finding what I want.

 

[tootnkumin]

Try switch motors, switch machines , turnout controls.

 

[Don]

On a Peco turnout there is usually a little tab on the bottom of the point rail that slides under the stock rail to make electrical contact. This "tab" is about 1/4 inch back from the end of the point, make sure it is contacting the stock rail. Most times you will have to bend it up ever so slightly.... This "tab is on both point rails.
Don Perla

 

[Santa Fe Jack]

This is all so familiar... having played with HO rains as a kid, but only intermittently, as I could set it up only on the floor once in while. the trains mostly lingered in the closet. then, as an adult, there was this epiphany that I could now play with trains in a bigger and better way... I could build a real layout. what fun! I even got out all my old brass track and the old power supply, and futzed with the track experimenting with different layouts. That seems to be where you are now.
But I frustrated by the old track (as I sense you are) and after deciding on a plan, I built a whole new layout from scratch, disposing of all that old brass track at a rummage sale, and using really nice track with a variety of stock turnouts and all (I settled on code 83 Walthers Shinohara). It's take years to build, but I have never looked back.

So, what I am saying is, don't waste too much time futzing with that old track, other than to devise a rough layout that you like. Then move ahead.

 

[KB02]

Yeah, sounds pretty close. The problem is that the track I played with as a kid is the GOOD stock that I have! The track that was given to me by a friend is the cruddy stuff. The track itself, though, isn't too big a deal as I have been able to clean it up pretty good. The turnouts are a bit a problem but most because of the motors being rusted out. I've actually got it all running pretty well now. The manual switch that I started this thread about is still being a problem, but I moved it to a dead end spar where it won't be used too much at all. In my plans for expansion, that spar will be turned into a main line and the manual turnout will be replaced with new powered one. At least that's the plan.

 

[JimT]

KBO2. I think all Peco turnouts are "manual" until you attach a nifty Peco switch motor beneath them. Sorry about your conductivity problems. Don't give up on the Peco yet, make it work its a quality product.

Welcome back to the hobby, a lot of us are at that point. You are in a good place, BTW you're a lucky man to have such a competant looking building buddy. Don't mess it up!