Iron Horseman...thank you for the ideas, I saw the layouts on atlas's website, I like the look for them, and it gives me a starting point. I think I can make the 12 feet work, but it will be close. it will be in front of the water heater, which is fairly new so I should be ok for a few years...knock on wood. So thanks again for the help.
Lynn..there is not a box yet that I have ever been able to think in!

I am going to get a little creative, I have a built in shelf that will sit directly behind the layout, and I am going to us that for the yard, and least part of the yard. So we will see how that goes.
My son has his tools all out and ready to start the bench work, he is just waiting on Dad get get the wood bought. I do have to say that it is nice, every night when I walk in the door, first think out of his mouth is "Can I drive the trains now". But the 40" by 60" layout does keep him busy. I do need to buy him a passenger set, because he loves to stop at the station and pick up people and yell...I mean yell..."All Aboard". I think last night I stop counting at 12 times. Again...thanks for the help.
hopefully this weekend I can start building.