Engine and cars?

[michaeljoe]

I am very new to model railroading. I'm sure there are probably a great deal of answers for my questions.
How can I tell if an HO train car...box....tanker....flatbed...ext. is a good one, worth using in a permanent layout, or just a cheap one that won't last to long.

Could it be brand name, the weight,...price (you get what you paid for) and so on.

Also, same question for HO train engines. I now there are different engines for different types of cars.
Thanks.

 

[D&J RailRoad]

The price.
Actually, just read the posts in here and you'll begin to realize what are quality and what would find its way to the sand box with the kiddies.

 

[santafewillie]

This is a very subjective inquiry. Price for example, a freight car selling for $25, 15 years ago, might be as good as or better than a freight car selling today for $45.
What is worth using on a permanent layout is strictly up to the individual modeler. You can pay for super-detailed cars like Athearn Genesis or ScaleTrains but they don't run any better than a less expensive Walther's Mainline or Athearn RTR (Ready to Run) car. They just look better (but tend to be more fragile) and the less expensive ones might need some after-market detailing. It's strictly up to your individual tastes and budget.
I would look for cars that are already equipped with metal wheels and metal (vs plastic) couplers; but those can be added to any car. I and many other modelers, have many freight cars from 30 years ago that cost me less than $5 each, specifically Athearn Blue Box or Roundhouse ones. Once Kadee couplers and metal wheels are added, it's hard to tell the difference when a train is moving by. Tankers in my opinion are the exception.
Regarding engines, I would shy away from anything that comes from Tyco, older Bachmann, older Lifelike (pre-P2K) or Model Power. Any engine can be upgraded to a high quality running and looking model. Well, some may not be able to run as well, but that is another post.
As Ken posted, ask here on the forum about individual models and several fellow members will chime in both ways.

 

[michaeljoe]

This is a very subjective inquiry. Price for example, a freight car selling for $25, 15 years ago, might be as good as or better than a freight car selling today for $45.
What is worth using on a permanent layout is strictly up to the individual modeler. You can pay for super-detailed cars like Athearn Genesis or ScaleTrains but they don't run any better than a less expensive Walther's Mainline or Athearn RTR (Ready to Run) car. They just look better (but tend to be more fragile) and the less expensive ones might need some after-market detailing. It's strictly up to your individual tastes and budget.
I would look for cars that are already equipped with metal wheels and metal (vs plastic) couplers; but those can be added to any car. I and many other modelers, have many freight cars from 30 years ago that cost me less than $5 each, specifically Athearn Blue Box or Roundhouse ones. Once Kadee couplers and metal wheels are added, it's hard to tell the difference when a train is moving by. Tankers in my opinion are the exception.
Regarding engines, I would shy away from anything that comes from Tyco, older Bachmann, older Lifelike (pre-P2K) or Model Power. Any engine can be upgraded to a high quality running and looking model. Well, some may not be able to run as well, but that is another post.
As Ken posted, ask here on the forum about individual models and several fellow members will chime in both ways.

Thanks, santafewillie..........what does "pre-P2K" mean?
Next month there is a model train show in my area, (Great Scale Model Train Show) Timonium.
So, I'm trying to get some ......education on trains..... if I'm able to make the show.
I'm not sure if I ask this, but..... any booths or recommendations? This will be my first train show if I can get there.

Thanks.

 

[santafewillie]

what does "pre-P2K" mean?

P2K an abbreviation for the Proto 2000 line of freight cars and engines that LifeLike began manufacturing around 1990 or so. They were a giant step quality-wise above the products that LifeLike had been making for many years. Walther's eventually purchased LifeLike and the engines are now simply known as their Proto line.
I have never been to the Timonium show, however I have read some really great reviews about it. As that show comes a little closer, there will be posts about it mostly over in the Coffee Shop.

 

[NorthBrit]

I cannot answer your question as I live over the pond.

What I will say some more old robust rolling stock will keep on going as much as the super detail ones.

Whatever you choose remember to lay the track carefully. It doesn't matter how good or bad rolling stock is, it will not run well on poorly laid track.

Enjoy the journey. The rewards are amazing.

 

[Iron Horseman]

How can I tell if an HO train car...box....tanker....flatbed...ext. is a good one, worth using in a permanent layout, or just a cheap one that won't last to long.

That is actually a very difficult question, because there are toys, there are good runners, and there are good lookers. Some of the cheapo toys will actually last longer under heavy use than the good lookers. I am getting the impression you are wanting the good runners. Also assuming you are talking USA.

Talking new in box stuff: for the good lookers you can definitely go by price. $59 would be a very high end freight car. It will be very detailed and run very well. The problem is you have to handle them gingerly. The fine details will bend and break off with the slightest bump. I stopped using these type of cars when I run the trains at show and operating sessions because invariable something happens. Brands are Intermountain, Scale Trains, Bluford Shops, probably Broadway Limited.

For average good runners the price has been climbing so I would look for name brands instead. Athearn is a hobby standard. There is also Roundhouse, Bowser, Atlas, Accurail, and Walthers. I would recommend you focus here.

The cheapo toy stuff is brands like Life-Like, Bachmann*, Model Power.

*Bachmann makes several lines of stuff, they have a Spectrum line that is top notch, and a "Silver" line that is so so.

The used market is much harder to navigate. Lots of toy stuff is going for high prices on eBay so one cannot use price as a guide here. Look for metal wheels, look for metal hooks that look like a hand not a curved plastic, look for hooks that are mounted to the body of the car and don't pivot with the wheels. Brands to avoid would be Tyco, IHC, Industrial, Marx.

So many more brands it is hard to list and categorize them. Also as Santa Fe Willie said almost anything can be worked into something that is nice looking and runs well, it just depends how much time, effort, and money one wishes to exert. I stopped taking on "project" pieces, just because my backlog is already so huge. I just pay more for what I want "now" without the extra work part.

Also, same question for HO train engines. I now there are different engines for different types of cars.

Yes, locomotive identification is a topic that one could write books on. Also makes a big difference if one is talking about Steam, Diesel, or Electric. In general a short diesel with a big cab will be a switch locomotive. For steam a switch engine will be one with only a few driving wheels. For diesels passenger locomotives are going to tend to be longer and more graceful looking while freighters are either shorter or utilitarian looking.

Passenger locomotives


Freighters

 

[D&J RailRoad]

to expand on the point of the trains shows. The Timonium show offers a White Elephant table area. This is an expansive part of the show with what seems like about 30 tables of consigned train stuff, from transformers, locomotives and rolling stock to scenery stuff. You can find some pretty good stuff there as more items are added as the tables clear.
The quality of rolling stock should begin with the trucks and couplers. Metal wheels and couplers is best. Detail comes second depending on your style of modeling. Detail is what can be spotted from a galloping horse nearby as the saying goes. Durability depends on how you use the model. Letting the kiddies play trains will require the details to be more durable. Careful handling can allow more detail. Your modeling skills will determine your ability to add detail from aftermarket vendors, i.e. Details West.
My club will be operating a fairly large modular layout at the October Timonium GSMTS. We are the PWMRC SIG with blue skirting and will be in the north hall of the Cow Palace. Stop by and say hi. I'll be there all weekend. We will be offering up for sale some of the stuff I pictured in the coffee shop.

 

[J.Albert]

OP:

Do you have a particular railroad (or two, or three) in which your interest lies?
Do you have a particular "time frame" in which you're interested (steam years, early diesels, 70's-80's, modern, etc.)?

How much space do you have?
Will you be starting with something like a 4x8 or 5x10, or something else?

 

[westtexjohn]

Do your best to make that train show in Timonium.
There are always folks at train shows ready to answer questions. You should be able to glean a plethora of information buy being able to have examples of models right there at the show to ask questions about. But be prepared, some model railroaders will talk your ears off.
You might want to start your hobby (depending on the time frame you elect to model) with diesel locomotives. Athearn Genesis, Scale Trains and Atlas are a few brands I would recommend.
Have fun......John

 

[michaeljoe]

OP:

Do you have a particular railroad (or two, or three) in which your interest lies?
Do you have a particular "time frame" in which you're interested (steam years, early diesels, 70's-80's, modern, etc.)?

How much space do you have?
Will you be starting with something like a 4x8 or 5x10, or something else?

I already have a 10.5' x 4' platform.
I like the diesel locomotives, Unsure about the time period, the layout and such.
Just trying to learn about, trains, engines,...cars.....track... and such, first.
But so far, I think I've learned enough to get me going in the right direction.

 

[KriegslokBR52]

I already have a 10.5' x 4' platform.
I like the diesel locomotives, Unsure about the time period, the layout and such.
Just trying to learn about, trains, engines,...cars.....track... and such, first.
But so far, I think I've learned enough to get me going in the right direction.

It's good to have an idea what exactly is your area of interest. Did you witness particular operation and want to recreate that in your home? I don't know where do you live, but judging by what you've wrote, Baltimore area is pretty familiar site...and it has a huge amount of diversity railroad wise. There are major electric operations by Amtrak, commuter operation by MARC which just on the passenger side makes things interesting. Two 1 class freight railroads converge in the area, as well as local shortline operations. There is also so called light rail, or trolley service depending on your name preference. As a bonus city of Baltimore has an excellent railroad museum, where you can see equipment all the way from the dawn of railroads in this country. The reason i'm writing about all of these, is because many types of cars and locomotives of particular interest reflect time period in which they were available. Modern diesels are no problem, but if you start to dig into past operations, you will have to search and do research about particular locomotive or car, as they may not be in production today.

 

[Iron Horseman]

The reason i'm writing about all of these, is because many types of cars and locomotives of particular interest reflect time period in which they were available.

And also it can look really silly to have 1890s style train cars behind a diesel locomotive or vice versa. At a show I just happen to have my older cars there, and had just bought a new F7 diesel. I just threw it on to test it and had a few people come over and tell me I needed to work on my "ERA" knowledge.

 

[boatwrench]

And also it can look really silly to have 1890s style train cars behind a diesel locomotive or vice versa. At a show I just happen to have my older cars there, and had just bought a new F7 diesel. I just threw it on to test it and had a few people come over and tell me I needed to work on my "ERA" knowledge.

Don't you just hate that? Most of these comments from those few people are spoken arrogantly and not in an instructive way. There is almost a prototype for everything. A few years back the Durango ran behind former White Pass diesels due to wildfire concerns.

Sorry for the hijack. Back to Michael Joe's questions; Athearn cars manufactured in the 70s and 80s, lovingly referred to as BB or Blue Box have minimal detail to breakoff and stand up to club (ab)use. Same with the Roundhouse cars from that period. Athearn covers many railroad eras and are easily identifiable by turning over and looking at the bottom of the car. There will be a piece of strap steel to add weight to the car. On Athearn hoppers the steel is on the slanted end of the car. I don't own any Athearn tank cars so have no way of telling you.

As others have said look for metal wheels and Kadee or other knuckle couplers. Avoid cars where the couplers are attached to the trucks, these are generally the toy trains. If a car appeals to you, the paint scheme, the weathering applied or the railroad name. Purchase it. With a little work these toy cars can be turned into a good looking and running model

Athearn Blue Box diesel locomotives the hoods are not the correct prototypical width. This changed early mid 80s when the newer design slim hoods were introduced on their SD40-2 and GP38-2.
Good luck with your decision, this forum has been a wealth of knowledge to me jumping back in the hobby after an almost 30 year absence.

 

[beiland]

Thanks, santafewillie..........what does "pre-P2K" mean?
Next month there is a model train show in my area, (Great Scale Model Train Show) Timonium.
So, I'm trying to get some ......education on trains..... if I'm able to make the show.
I'm not sure if I ask this, but..... any booths or recommendations? This will be my first train show if I can get there.

Thanks.

Go to that show, and if you can spend a couple of days. You will learn a lot. Its a great show, with a number of operating layouts as well as items for sale.

 

[KriegslokBR52]

Go to that show, and if you can spend a couple of days. You will learn a lot. Its a great show, with a number of operating layouts as well as items for sale.

I second that opinion. This one of the best train shows in the northeast with huge variety and lot of different ineresting stands.

 

[KriegslokBR52]

Thanks, santafewillie..........what does "pre-P2K" mean?
Next month there is a model train show in my area, (Great Scale Model Train Show) Timonium.
So, I'm trying to get some ......education on trains..... if I'm able to make the show.
I'm not sure if I ask this, but..... any booths or recommendations? This will be my first train show if I can get there.

Thanks.

That show is definitely worth your time.