dogbone or around wall style

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joed2323

Member
I got my benchwork almost done and its basically a u shape right now. I was going to make it a complete square or doughut style but im not sure if i should make it into a folded dogbone instead.

I cant decide if i want to deal with a duck under going with the around the walls style/square style layout. My layout height is 50inches which helps if i went that route.

But then i was thinking i could just make one of my ends bigger to allow a loop for track to come back around into a folded dogbone.

My layout size is roughly 10x10 but if i went with the folded dogbone i would extend the west side of layout thats against wall probably another 4-6feet to allow the turn back loop.

West side and north side is against wall and east and south side is open. This is in a open basement so i have no rooms to deal with, im doing ho scale.

What are the pros and cons of folded dog bone or doughnut shaped layout?
I atleast know about the duckunder issue, i was thinking of making a liftout section but i have a feeling i would be using the liftout section alot so i would hate to lift it out everytime i run trains.
 
Personally I would try to make the doughnut shape work, because it gives you the most length for an area, and easy access to the track all around. If you build a dogbone, you have to allow for the turnback loops, which occupy enormous amounts of space, and you'd most likely need two of them. Even if you can deal with that, you end up with a route that covers the same distance twice.

Rather than a liftout section, you could use a drawbridge (hinge at one end) or swinging gate with a vertical hinge. Yes, there are mechanical problems to solve, but people have dealt with them before.
 
Makes sense with going thru the same scene twice. I would get a longer run if i went with a around room style/dounut shape layout. Hmm decisions decisions
 


I am facing the same issues. My usable space is 10x13. I think I am leaning towards around the walls. It will provide me with a mainline run. I can do hidden staging on one side, so my trains can 'go somewhere'. basically it will be an industrial switching layout, with a mainline run. MRR mag had a great 10x11 around the walls layout 2 or 3 months ago...the Big Island RR...I am going to go that route, unless I see a better examble of a folded dog bone.
 
Each style seems like it has its pros and cons. I dont think there is a layout design that doesnt compromise something. I guess its a toss up really.

I do like the around wall style because if done right there could be alot more diff scences then what a dogbone has to offer
 
North Coast Railroad said:
MRR mag had a great 10x11 around the walls layout 2 or 3 months ago...the Big Island RR...I am going to go that route, unless I see a better examble of a folded dog bone.
Click to expand...

Devin, That layout was January 2012. I also think it is an excellent layout and track plan.

OP: I have a dogbone and the turnback loops eat space and require special construction for proper access to track. I would prefer an oval.
 
Thanks guys.

the more i think about the dogbone and the turnback loop. id rather habe a around wall style layout instead.

i found a little info on lift outs with pictures and it doesnt really seem to hard, nothing a person cant accomplish with a little time and patience.

I would be gaining alot more run with the around room style, thats what i want, looking to be able to run my trains the longest way and have room for industries to switch at, and i believe the around room style supports alot of that.
 
Joed2323,

I'm in the same boat as you basically. See my recently started thread "New around the walls layout". My room is roughly 11x13. I drew tons of plans for dogbones, folded dogbones, and donut/pit style layouts.

My frustration was the turnback "blobs". They limited the type of equipment I could run and created reach issues. Plus the folded dogbone more or less dominated the room.

So I turned to the around the walls shelf layout concept. It makes a lot of sense, railroads are very linear and the more current layout design concepts seem to be heading in that direction.

There are many pluses for me...generous radii, longer main, feeling like the train(s) are actually going somewhere, and the trains don't pass through the same scene twice. Plus by using relatively narrow shelves the room can be used for other purposes if need be.

The minuses...number 1 would be the liftout/duckunder of course. Since this room will be more or less "my" room holding the layout and my work table, I don't have to be concerned about removing the liftout daily. I'm planning a relatively high layout, over 50 inches, and with a narrow one track liftout section I'm not too concerned about leaving the liftout in place and stooping under it. I'm sure it'll get old at times, but after compiling a list of the pros and cons of all the different layout footprints I decided that I'll have to live with it.

I'm not planning anything elaborate like a swing gate, I don't have the time or ambition for that. But I will have some kind of safeguard in place to make sure trains don't do a swan dive to the floor if the liftout is removed.

Another minus is that the layout will be tailored to fit one particular room, so if I move is in the cards there's a good chance a lot of reworking would be required to fit it into the new space.

Other than that I'm excited at the idea of an around the walls layout, can't wait to get started, just have to nail down the track plan.

Good luck with whatever you choose!
 
trainnut- my benchwork is already in place, im not sure if your at the same position im at. My benchwork height is about 50 inches also.

I wanted to look thru my scenes and watch my trains near chest to eye level instead of the helicopter view.

I was going back and fourth with the folded dogbone or around walls style, and just recently decided i like what the around walls style has to offer.

I dont think a dogbone would be that bad if a person could hide the turnbacks in a mtn or thru/around woods or buildings.

trainnut- what are you going to do about staging? are you going to have something or? Im undecided with staging at this point, but i gotta make my decision soon.

My layout size is 10x9.5, what size are you going with?
 
joed2323 said:
trainnut- my benchwork is already in place, im not sure if your at the same position im at. My benchwork height is about 50 inches also.
Click to expand...

I put the last coat of paint on the walls, have ordered the shelf track components, and am ready to go and get the lumber any day now!

joed2323 said:
I wanted to look thru my scenes and watch my trains near chest to eye level instead of the helicopter view.
Click to expand...

Same here, after having a couple of island type layouts I've really come to admire shelf layouts. I haven't decided on the exact height yet, I may even go a little higher than 50".

joed2323 said:
I was going back and fourth with the folded dogbone or around walls style, and just recently decided i like what the around walls style has to offer.

I dont think a dogbone would be that bad if a person could hide the turnbacks in a mtn or thru/around woods or buildings.
Click to expand...

I've done the same thing for the last two years or so, and frankly I'm tired of being stuck in "analysis paralysis"! For the room size I have the folded dog bone was going to be too restrictive..I was looking at 22" radius, access/reach concerns, and the fact that the layout would dominate the room. But yes, I've seen some well done dogbone style layouts, so I'm not knocking them by any means. I'm just ready for something new and different.

joed2323 said:
trainnut- what are you going to do about staging? are you going to have something or? Im undecided with staging at this point, but i gotta make my decision soon.

My layout size is 10x9.5, what size are you going with?
Click to expand...

I initially was going to skip staging since the layout is going to relatively basic and will represent a small shortline, but after reading through some of the posts in my thread here:

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=258814#post258814

I've decided that at least one hidden staging track should be included. It will go a long way towards operation.

The room I'm working with is 12' 10" x 10' 10".

The liftout is really the only thing I have a little concern about, but for me it's well worth all the other benefits of going around the walls.

Good luck with the planning process, lord knows it's taking me forever to get through it!
 


need help.

Ive been trying to copy/post pictures from photobucket to show you guys what im trying to do with my layout.

I want to post pictures but cant do it, it cant be hard
 
joed2323 said:
need help.

Ive been trying to copy/post pictures from photobucket to show you guys what im trying to do with my layout.

I want to post pictures but cant do it, it cant be hard
Click to expand...

In photo bucket. Grab/copy the url to the photo. Then click on the "Insert Image" icon. Paste it in the box. That's it.
 
guys i finally have some pictures up.

Bare with me, i plan on mudding my joints and screw holes of backdrop this evening, hopefully painting backdrop a sky color soon.

All those ugly half ass cardboard track templates you see scatterd here and there, its just to give me ideas. nothing set in stone.

I plan on having a small yard with 2 stall engine garage on east side.

the cardboard wye you can see is on the north section.

please guys let me know what you hate, what you think i need to change, maybe even if im doing something remotely right. you wont hurt my feelings :) you will help me make the right steps. remember im a rookie so keep that in mind hey :)

let me know if you need better pictures of anything on my layout since i figured out how to post pics finally
 
or you can do it like this :D

photobucket-8456-1328978097769.png


In the header at the top of the message window there is an icon "
AddPhoto.jpg
just click on it. A little window will open up asking you to enter the URL of the photo you want to show
EnterURL.jpg

Use the backspace <--- key to delete the blue { http://} then paste your photo's url in there. Click on OK and you're finished.

Thats a real nice start, looking good! Keep us updated OK! :D
Cheers
Willis
 
joed2323 said:
I got my benchwork almost done and its basically a u shape right now. I was going to make it a complete square or doughut style but im not sure if i should make it into a folded dogbone instead.

I cant decide if i want to deal with a duck under going with the around the walls style/square style layout. My layout height is 50inches which helps if i went that route.

But then i was thinking i could just make one of my ends bigger to allow a loop for track to come back around into a folded dogbone.

My layout size is roughly 10x10 but if i went with the folded dogbone i would extend the west side of layout thats against wall probably another 4-6feet to allow the turn back loop.

West side and north side is against wall and east and south side is open. This is in a open basement so i have no rooms to deal with, im doing ho scale.

What are the pros and cons of folded dog bone or doughnut shaped layout?
I atleast know about the duckunder issue, i was thinking of making a liftout section but i have a feeling i would be using the liftout section alot so i would hate to lift it out everytime i run trains.
Click to expand...

You know, I would recommend taking a step back and define the problem more clearly first, instead of asking for pretty general advice.

In a small room, I would almost always recommend doughnut shaped. But you seemingly do not have a small room.

As I understand your description, you have something like this:

joed-room.jpg


It is possible - if you have room for a lobe with a turnback curve down to the left, and the borders to the right and south are not so fixed - that you will have room for a nice dogbone - where one leg of the dogbone will be multi-track staging beneath the visible part of the layout having a once-through run.

I would start by drawing a plan showing the entire room to scale - doors, windows, electrical panels, furnace etc, and then show what part of that space you must have access to.

Could very well be that something not based on rectangles would fit the layout better.

I would also recommend doing a more detailed description of your overall layout concept - your goal or vision.

What you want to model? Busy mainline, tranquil branch line with two trains a day? Big city? Small town? Suburban industry park? Industries out in the countryside? Trans-loading to river barges or hauling stuff into an ocean port? Plains, mountains, deserts, forests?

1920s, 1950s, today or some other era? Passenger and freight or just freight? If passenger - what kind - passing cross-continental train? Push-pull commuter run? RDCs?

What is your connection to the rest of the world? Will you start running sessions with cars that "have been delivered" to your yard by the night shift, or cars that "have been set out" on an interchange track somewhere to be picked up by you, or do you want to model a train arriving with inbound cars and departing with outbound cars during the running session?

Or is your main goal to have e.g. five ready made train sets in the yard, and then select a set to go looping a couple of times before it is parked on it's track again, and another set it picked to do it's loops, while you sit back with a cold beverage of some kind in your hand and relax while the train passes you, maybe flicking a switch to make the train go through a reversing loop and then head back in the opposite direction without stopping?

Or something else?

One you have a description of your entire room and of your goals, it becomes a lot easier for others to make suggestions or comment on how well your track plans work for your goal and your space.

Smile,
Stein
 
Stein- thanks very much for your input.

Your design of my layout is spot on 100%. Im thinking of adding 2 foot by 8 foot on west section/against the wall dedicated for my yard. Where i tried sticking it on west section, didnt give me much room for anything, want my longest yard track to be around 6feet long.
Or extending it anyway as stein pointed out

Adding atleast 8 feet would free up alot of Land for town/industries.

My setting would take place in the north woods of da upper peninsula of Michigan. I want to run Canadian national trains and they share tracks with escanaba & lake superior.

I want to model a shortline. The e&l rr is a shortline but they have somewhere of 250-350 miles of track.

The e&l services atleast 3-4 paper mills. Countless other industries. I really wanted a papermill to model. But dont know how i could do that with the space i have now.
I would add a section here and there if need be.

Paper/lumber/grain/steel were the things i was planning on hauling.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No passenger cars only freight.

I have a open square basement, nothing i have to deal with except the stairs near middle of basement and breaker panel on right of 5x8section.

I need staging/interchange of some sort. Want my trains too look like they are coming from somrwhere. Im not sure if id be happy pretending they already came from somewhere in the yard.
I want to switch different industries pick up drop of cars. Want to be able to run continuous also. I want to have options not i can only run trains one way.
Want to be able to turn trains around. I will most likely be running one train probably 6-10 cars if im lucky.

I wanted a second deck maybe lower level was staging butnot sure if thats possible with my setup. _

I need help guys. I want somebody to alter my plan for me please :)
 
I just tore down my 'folded dogbone' layout in one bedroom to build this 12x13 'around the walls' layout in another. Yes, there's alot of track, but I like mainline running. Also there are alot of elevation changes and the benchwork, particularly the installation of the sub-roadbed, will be challenging.

Brad
 


Bigb- why did you change you change your mind or layout direction i should say.

Did you just not like the dogbone style? And like the continuous mainline run you can get from doughnut style?
 
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