Designing first layout, lots of questions!

[rdemattio91]

Hey guys im trying to design the HOG on anyrail, and I have some questions about turn outs. I wanna put in remote turn outs, but it does not have the number turnout next to remote turn outs (EX. #4,#6,#8) the only turnouts that have the # next to them are "custom" turnouts. Is there a way to know what number turnout I am using if it does not post the number? Also, whats the min number turnout I can use for a modern set up? 6 for yards and 8 for main?

 

[joed2323]

#6 is about the smallest i would go running modern.

I know of a few ppl who run modern and have #4 turnouts in the yard and have no issues. You gotta go slow through the yard anyways so thats why #4 would work if a must.

But i would recommend #6-#8 turnouts. You can use #6 on main also. #8 look nicer though going through them with bigger equipment.

 

[rdemattio91]

#6 is about the smallest i would go running modern.

I know of a few ppl who run modern and have #4 turnouts in the yard and have no issues. You gotta go slow through the yard anyways so thats why #4 would work if a must.

But i would recommend #6-#8 turnouts. You can use #6 on main also. #8 look nicer though going through them with bigger equipment.

Thanks alot, how do I know what is #6 and #8 tho? The only turnouts that show the # are "Custom" turnouts, I wanted to use the remote turnouts and they dont show the #, all the show is the radius of the turn out.

 

[cv_acr]

redemattio91: are you referring to "CustomLine" turnouts in an Atlas track library in the program?

The Atlas Custom Line turnouts come in specific numbers (#6, etc.)

The old 18" radius-equivalent Atlas Snap-Switches come out to roughly approximately a #4.5. They're not designed around a particular frog angle, but the replacement radius of curved sectional track that they fit in to.

The frog # by the way, represents the angle of the frog as a ratio of the distance between the diverging rails and the distance from the frog. i.e. for a #6 frog, after crossing at the frog, the rails will be 1" apart at 6" away from the frog if both routes were to continue straight. The higher the frog number, the longer the switch and the broader the curves through the diverging route of the switch.

 

[LoudMusic]

I'm of the mindset of "less is more".

Here is my last layout of 11 X 13. My next will be with less track.

A shelf layout can be very interesting and fun to run with minimal sidings and destinations.

Have you considered modelling a branch line?

I'd go for more than a radius of 22; you have the room for it and could get away with 32 inch radius and trains look nice on a radius like that.

You do not need a lot of lumber to make a shelf layout. You can put a 12 inch shelf on very strong brackets and it won't be intrusive on the room especially if you have it at chin height. This way you can still use the room as a guest room or office. Check out the pics of my past layout.

Here are links to my old narrow shelf layout to give you an idea what can be put into a shelf as narrow as 9 to 12 inches:

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16941&highlight=scenes+narrow

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/...ighlight=scenes+narrow+shelf+layout+continued

I have thought a lot about Zoegraf's layout and it has to be one of the most space-friendly layouts I've seen. Excellent simplistic design.

 

[cv_acr]

I have thought a lot about Zoegraf's layout and it has to be one of the most space-friendly layouts I've seen. Excellent simplistic design.

Yes. Not cluttered, and very "railroady" with a rural branch line feel.

 

[rdemattio91]

redemattio91: are you referring to "CustomLine" turnouts in an Atlas track library in the program?

The Atlas Custom Line turnouts come in specific numbers (#6, etc.)

The old 18" radius-equivalent Atlas Snap-Switches come out to roughly approximately a #4.5. They're not designed around a particular frog angle, but the replacement radius of curved sectional track that they fit in to.

The frog # by the way, represents the angle of the frog as a ratio of the distance between the diverging rails and the distance from the frog. i.e. for a #6 frog, after crossing at the frog, the rails will be 1" apart at 6" away from the frog if both routes were to continue straight. The higher the frog number, the longer the switch and the broader the curves through the diverging route of the switch.

Thanks alot, that explains it alot better. So whats the difference between an atlas custom line turnout and a atlas remote snap switch? Besides the #.

 

[railfan]

My N scale atlas remote snap switches have a built-in electric actuator that uses a momentary current that moves the switch points. There is also a mechanical trip pin you can push with your finger to change the switch manually.

The snap switches don't look very realistic because of the black box that houses the actuator.....but mine function very well. The custom line switches require the use of manual ground throws or switch motors, (bought separately).....and they look more prototypical.

When I say mine work well.....I'm only using the trip pin manually. I've yet to try the remote hook up.



Mike

 

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

Thanks alot, that explains it alot better. So whats the difference between an atlas custom line turnout and a atlas remote snap switch? Besides the #.

As mentioned, the snap switches have a curve through them to match 18" (and more recently) 22" radius curves. the problem is that this creates a very sharp diverging route that is unsuitable for anything trying to be realistic. It simply comes down to the #4 and #6 turnouts being gentler curves than the snap switches.

 

[rdemattio91]

so I need to purchase a switch machine. How hard is it to install these machines?

 

[Iron Horseman]

so I need to purchase a switch machine. How hard is it to install these machines?

If you purchase the standard Atlas track side switch machines, it is very easy. There are notches on the ties such that the switch motor clips into. Basically one "threads" the switch motor actuator rod into the points bar, align the closest tab, then angle the motor back to be parallel with the track and snaps into another notch. Takes all of about 10 seconds.

On the other hand if the idea is to us slow motion stall motors under the layout there is drilling, mounting, adjusting, and possibly linkage to deal with.

 

[railfan]

so I need to purchase a switch machine. How hard is it to install these machines?

If you have plenty of time and money, you can have fancy remote motor operated turnouts.

If you want to get going quicker and cheaper.....you can use the affordable, popular, and easy to install, caboose industries ground throws. Then maybe work on the remote ones......one or two at a time to figure out what works best for you. Ground throws look like this. They cost three bucks each or less in N scale. They connect directly to atlas custom line turnouts.....or most normal turnouts (not for atlas snap switches). I use the ones with the built-in spring.



Mike

 

[rdemattio91]

If you have plenty of time and money, you can have fancy remote motor operated turnouts.

If you want to get going quicker and cheaper.....you can use the affordable, popular, and easy to install, caboose industries ground throws. Then maybe work on the remote ones......one or two at a time to figure out what works best for you. Ground throws look like this. They cost three bucks each or less in N scale. They connect directly to atlas custom line turnouts.....or most normal turnouts (not for atlas snap switches). I use the ones with the built-in spring.



Mike

Will the trains run over those well tho? I always figured u get what u pay for

 

[rdemattio91]

Well guys here is my design with a double main. I increased the 2 sides to 24 inches which wont be a problem because I am 6'4". I made an elevation on the bottom right, I'm not sure if the clearence is good enough. I have 2 1/2 inches of elevation for the top rails, and 1 inch of decline for the under rail. Is that sufficient? Also, i used the right side for a staging yard, but I kinda want to put in a coal mine or something because I love seeing coal trains and I have alot of coal cars. But then I wont have a staging yard enless I put it on the left side, but I think that will be too much track if I pile more on the left side. Opinions?

Here is the original hog so you can see my changes

P.S Each square equals 1 foot

 

[joed2323]

Ground throws attach to the outside of the turnouts. Trains dont actually runover the ground throw. If you go with caboose ground throws just get the atlas custom turnouts... i also use the ground throws as well
To me the ground throws feel more like the real thing, having to manually switch each turnout plus its cheap and easy to use.

 

[choops]

layout Looks great

3 1/2" is the minimum. You may want to go 4". I would put the steeper grade on the branch line.

Have you considered making the bench work 18" deep on all sides. 12" may be too narrow and 24" is about the max depth that I would use.

May want to add a staging track or two.

Steve

 

[cuyama]

Have you considered making the bench work 18" deep on all sides.

It's also worth considering varying the benchwork depth in places for access or scenery. You might also want to let the branch "run" farther before crossing over or under to ease the grades.

There's nothing magical about the HOG -- "donut" style layouts have been around since the beginning of the hobby. The gimmick of cutting the HOG all from one sheet of plywood creates some limitations (such as the 1 foot benchwork width everywhere) that aren't necessary.

The HOG is certainly better than an HO "sacred sheet" 4X8 monolith, but there are many ways to take advantage of the donut idea that aren't explored in the HOG -- such as adding staging, including backdrops to create different "inside" and "outside" scenes (if in a larger room), etc.

Best of luck with your layout.

 

[rdemattio91]

Ground throws attach to the outside of the turnouts. Trains dont actually runover the ground throw. If you go with caboose ground throws just get the atlas custom turnouts... i also use the ground throws as well
To me the ground throws feel more like the real thing, having to manually switch each turnout plus its cheap and easy to use.

I guess I didnt type that the right way, but I ment like de-railing just due to the fact that it is a cheaper turnout, not the fact that it will literally run over the ground throw.

 

[joed2323]

Atlas mark custom turnouts are not junk, they dont derail any more or any less then other brands. A caboose ground throw or switch machine or remote turnout is basically the same thing except you have to switch the turnout manually vs electronically if that makes anymore sense.

 

[rdemattio91]

Atlas mark custom turnouts are not junk, they dont derail any more or any less then other brands. A caboose ground throw or switch machine or remote turnout is basically the same thing except you have to switch the turnout manually vs electronically if that makes anymore sense.

I think I get it now. THe caboose ground throws are just that- a ground throw. There is no track associated with it, it is just a ground throw that I could hook to my custom line turnout so that I can manually switch the track, correct?