dead track

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Cajon has suggested other places where people can learn about Dead Rail. From the posts, people haven't bothered to go there.

Yes, you can charge from the track, but be prepared to sit for an hour. A quick swap of the depleted battery for a full one takes 30 seconds or less. Then you are back in business.

For guys that need occupancy detection and lots of other wired stuff, stick with DCC, Dead Rail will not get you any advantage.

Batteries don't implode. Sound decoders draw very little current.

There are many people happily operating their trains with battery power and radio control. I would suggest that for most of the people commenting on this thread, battery power is not for you. Stick with your current way of operating trains.

Pete Steinmetz
 
Can you use your smart phone/device to control the train, or is a dedicated radio control required. As far as Face Book groups go, I find it's like wading through swampy water to get the information you're looking for. Put the arguments/incentives on a thread like this, much more compelling.

The reason I ask about control with smart devices is because that is becoming so much more popular, certainly among the DCC users at clubs in particular. No need to haul around a large full function Cab. At the club I go to that has just converted a large part of their layout to DCC, there's only me with a radio cab, everyone else is using their phones.

P.S. Don't let the fact that you haven't received huge expressions of interest or opposite views put you off from espousing your systems. DCC had the same in it's infancy.
 
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fcwilt said:
LiPo batteries do not implode but the can catch fire and vent rather dramatically.

In this video they abuse the poor batteries to trigger the venting/fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coX0SwubG4A

But it can, under certain circumstances happen sans such abuse.

If you are using LiPo batteries read up and be safe.
Click to expand...

Seriously? This Einstein charges it fast, then hooks it up to a car battery, then has to hit it with a stick. Lots of things will catch fire or fail if a person does that to them.
The other thing is he is using a Li-Po pack from the RC car world. Hopefully none of us are using those type of Li-Po batteries. Mine all have a safety circuit on them that would prevent this type of failure. Use a pack that has safety protection on it.

With reasonable care and common sense, Lithium Polymer batteries will not catch fire or explode.

Please don't compare Dead Rail guys to RC car or airplane guys. The type of Li-po they use needs a high discharge rate. Ours do not need that high rate feature.

Be smart and be safe.

Pete Steinmetz
Dead Rail Society
 
tootnkumin said:
Can you use your smart phone/device to control the train, or is a dedicated radio control required. As far as Face Book groups go, I find it's like wading through swampy water to get the information you're looking for. Put the arguments/incentives on a thread like this, much more compelling.

The reason I ask about control with smart devices is because that is becoming so much more popular, certainly among the DCC users at clubs in particular. No need to haul around a large full function Cab. At the club I go to that has just converted a large part of their layout to DCC, there's only me with a radio cab, everyone else is using their phones.

P.S. Don't let the fact that you haven't received huge expressions of interest or opposite views put you off from espousing your systems. DCC had the same in it's infancy.
Click to expand...

The only system you might be able to use a smart phone with would be the Tam Valley Depot. Reason, it uses existing DCC. The smart phone app needs to run through JMRI.

The rest of the systems won't run through JMRI.

There is a Tam Valley Yahoo Group. Someone on that group might be able to answer that question.

Pete Steinmetz
 
Pete Steinmetz said:
Seriously? This Einstein charges it fast, then hooks it up to a car battery, then has to hit it with a stick. Lots of things will catch fire or fail if a person does that to them.


Pete Steinmetz
Dead Rail Society
Click to expand...

I pointed out that they were abusing the battery but LiPo batteries have displayed this type of failure in normal use.

The failure mode of a LiPo is quite a bit different from other common batteries that folks may encounter and it is, IMO, worth being aware of.

You may remember that a number of laptop makers had to issue recalls do to problems with LiPo batteries and these were not "RC" batteries.

I use LiPo batteries myself so I am not suggesting they be avoided, just that folks should be aware of the care, treatment and possible failure modes of such batteries.

Better safe then sorry.
 
Being better safe than sorry is a good rule with Li-Pos and other things in life.

Years ago there were many Li-Po failures. Sony and Panasonic had factories burn to the ground.

Cell phones and laptops caught fire. Mos of the consumer goods fires were attributed to counterfeit batteries that were substituted by the contract manufacturers that assembled the products.

Because of those incidents, manufacturers such as Apple, Dell, Motorola, all cell phone manufacturers are very careful about what factories they buy batterie from. The customer has people performing quality checks daily to insure there are no problems.
these are commercial cell manufacturers and include Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony LG, BYD, Samsung and others. All of these companies publish cell specifications. They submit the cells to UL. They have the cells tested to UN 38.3 for transportation aboard aircraft.
None of these companies manufacturer for the RC business.

Manufacturers that sell heavily into the RC business do so because they do not have the equipment or quality control necessary to pass audits of the major customers.
Does anyone know who the actual factory is that manufacturers the cells or assembles the packs? No
Ever seen a detailed specification sheet for the cells involved in the p
ack? No
Ever seen a UL label on the cells or packs? No
Ever see a cycle life spec on an RC battery? No

While both types are lithium Polymer batteries, there are big differences in the manufacturing and quality.

The RC people need high discharge rate cells and packs. I believe the one that the guy hooked up to a 12V battery and hit with a stick was a 50C discharge pack.

The commercial cells are specified at 2C. Big difference.

The cells in you phone or laptop also have a Protection Control Module on the cells or the pack. this prevents over charge, over discharge, thermal runaway and other nasty things. The normal discharge cut off for the standard PCM is 3 amps.

RC packs that can discharge at much higher than 3 amps can't have a PCM.

All the packs I bought from RC suppliers failed. None caught fire, they just swelled up and wouldn't take a charge.

None of the commercial packs I had failed. All afe still going strong. Some are 3 years old.

I hope this gives a little insight into batteries and the difference between commercial cells and RC cells.

Pete Steinmetz
Dead Rail Society
 
Pete,

Thank you for all that information. I have extremely basic wiring on my layout. 2 bus wires and feeders off of that. Where needed, the bus goes into auto reversing circuits, in the staging loops. No signals, no powered turnouts, nothing fancy whatsoever.

However, like I said, I have several brass locos, and I don't fancy having to remove screws and change a battery everytime I have an op session. That also doesn't take into consideration the other steamers, and few diesels on the layout. What do you do about visiting locomotives?

Again, thank you for the information, but I'm not interested. I love to read and learn about the new stuff, it's just this one isn't for me.
 
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Carey:

If you are all wired for DCC, run both. When visitors come they run DCC just like always. If you have a battery powered loco, it can be run at the same time. Our On30 modular group has both DCC and battery locos running at the same time. No problems. If you are running Dead Rail and have visitors, pretty soon others will be showing up with Dead Rail locos. Or they will want to see your loco up close.

As for your brass locos, put a small charging jack in an out of the way or easy to conceal area.

http://tinyurl.com/mq6zc7j

This is how Duncan McRee does it on his HO Donner Pass layout. Duncan is the owner of Tam Valley Depot.

It's pretty addicting. But it is not for everybody.

Pete Steinmetz
 
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