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I know I have submitted more questions than anything else since I've joined this forum so I apologize for asking yet another.
As a beginner I do try to contribute but my lack of experience tends to dissuade me from doing so. Having access to almost instant opinions from more experienced and skilled modelers makes it hard to resist bombarding the forum with the questions I have. I do plan to share photos of my layout and interact with you all in a more robust way asap.
That being said:
I have completed the bench work and begun running the bus line for my layout. Currently I have basically a 10' x 10' oval with two turnouts which form a passing siding and two more turnouts which will eventually form crossovers to another main line. At present it all is fed from the bus by a signal set of feeders placed at the point end of one of the turnouts. The "guy" at the hobby shop said a signal set of feeders should be fine for only one loco.
For a few days my only loco (for now) has run perfectly but then stuttered early today. It had been some time since I cleaned the track and wheels so I did so with Act-6006 track cleaner. I also gently rubbed the track with a "Bright Boy"
Now it runs worse! The engine stutters and stalls more frequently than ever. Often but not exclusively at turnouts. Will this improve as I connect more feeders to the bus? If so, why did it work so well for the first few days?
I know I put a lot on the table here but I would appreciate any comments or suggestions anyone may have.
I have basically a 10' x 10' oval with two turnouts which form a passing siding and two more turnouts which will eventually form crossovers to another main line. At present it all is fed from the bus by a signal set of feeders placed at the point end of one of the turnouts. The "guy" at the hobby shop said a signal set of feeders should be fine for only one loco.
Yes, I agree that is approximately 40 feet of track so the train is never more than 20 feet from power. But I would at least drop a set of feeders as far away from the existing ones as is possible (opposite side of the oval). That would make the train never more than 10 feet from power. Ideally I would then add a set of feeders between each of those (two more) so the train is within 5' of power. And to answer your last question - No, I don't think this is what is causing the loco to stutter.
For a few days my only loco (for now) has run perfectly but then stuttered early today. It had been some time since I cleaned the track and wheels so I did so with Act-6006 track cleaner. I also gently rubbed the track with a "Bright Boy"
Now it runs worse! The engine stutters and stalls more frequently than ever.
First, did you clean the locomotive wheels? That is my guess. If you ran the loco while the ACT-6006 was wet sometimes that will just transfer gunk to the wheels. Assuming you did this in the order you stated, I would have wiped the rails after the bright boy. The stuff it scraped off might have transferred to the loco wheels. Then, I would throw the "Bright Boy" away. Bright boy's were invented in the old days of brass rail and they are basically a fine grit abrasive. They clean really well, but they also scratch and make little groves on the rail tops that just collect dirt faster requiring more frequent cleaning.
If cleaning the wheels doesn't work, check to see if there are wheel wipers somewhere that transfer power. If so clean those too. I have some old Atlas locos that wipe the back of the wheel for power. They are always picking up gunk / hair / dust / cobwebs from around the track.
Thanks, iron horseman. I will go back and clean the wheels again and make sure the track is clean and dry. I'll let you know how I made out and add more feeders ASAP.
I agree with IH, add at least another set of feeders. If it ran well for a period of time, I would also look for loose rail joiners if you use them without soldering or without fastening the track down. Track/wheels don't usually get that dirty so quickly unless you are in a particularly dusty atmosphere like an open garage. Follow all of his advice regarding cleaning and wiping.
Thanks, Willie. I have cleaned the engine's wheels and track as thoroughly as I can fathom is needed. Additional feeders will have to wait until the weekend anyway.
I'm testing it now but want to give it some time before I post the results so i know that I have a pretty good idea of how it's working.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. Hopefully I'll have good news later today.
The good news is this is not another question but an observation. After cleaning the track and loco's wheels I wiped dry and gave some time for air drying. When I first ran the engine it repeatedly stuttered at the slow speeds. For some reason I got the idea to help it up to a much higher speed and let it run for quite some time forward and reverse.
Now it it is running orders of magnitude better than it was. I know I need to finish the bus and add more than the one set of feeders but that will have to wait until I have more time.
Thanks for for your help and if anyone else wants to weigh in this rookie would like to hear what you're thinking!
Is your engine used? Perhaps the motor needs a good cleaning. I bought a used engine that acts like you are describing and I think the motor itself just needs to be cleaned.
Hey, rail runner. Thanks for the reply. I bought the engine new just a month or so ago. Of course, that probably doesn't preclude the possibility of a dirty motor. If this is the case I will contact the manufacturer. Out of curiosity; how does one clean the motor?
If cleaning the wheels doesn't work, check to see if there are wheel wipers somewhere that transfer power. If so clean those too. I have some old Atlas locos that wipe the back of the wheel for power. They are always picking up gunk / hair / dust / cobwebs from around the track.
I'm not familiar with wheel wipers but by your description i don't think my engine has them. My engine is a Broadway Limited (Paragon II). Anyone know if this engine has these wipers?
I'm not familiar with wheel wipers but by your description i don't think my engine has them. My engine is a Broadway Limited (Paragon II). Anyone know if this engine has these wipers?
It doesn't. The power pickup is at the axle points. The problem may quite simply be that it's a Broadway Limited. I have three of their locomotives (Two Centipedes and an E8) that ran fine at first and then began having the stuttering issue. Talked to the LHS and they say that in their experience it's been fairly common for BL to have those issues, to the point where they don't really carry their stuff any more. I've got 100+ locos, and the Broadway Limited models are the only three out of the whole batch that stall and flicker all the time like that. Other locos might have a headlight flicker once in a great while, and never stall. These guys will actually stall completely (not just flicker) even after they get moving at slower speeds, and it's only at high speed that they'll keep running. The thing is, when they do stall, they immediately start right back up and start their acceleration sequence again without even being touched. It's not the track. Beyond that, my Centipedes will once in a while actually make sound like they're running fine, but the motor will just stop. I have yet to actually take them apart and see if any buildup of lubrication or something like that may be causing the issues, but even gunk won't explain that non-running motor issue when the sound is still chugging along. They've only had *maybe* 30 minutes run time at most, so if I do find any gunk it will have come from inside the loco rather than outside. Honestly, my guess (and the LHS agrees) is that there's an issue with the decoder. Needless to say, I won't be rushing to buy any more BL locos until I find out what is causing all these issues. Then we'll see. It does suck that they're problem children, because they do make a very pretty locomotive with great sound.
Something to ponder is where does the loco stall, if it's the same spots I'd definitely look at the joiners.
If you're using a bright boy look for a graphite stick to rub on the rails, it fills the scratches left behind in the rails.
Cleaning track is a popular topic, a search will turn up hundreds of ideas and opinions.
My personal favourite is the Centerline track cleaner with the roller and a J cloth strip.
Yes loco pickups do get grubby and as mentioned BLI locos are notorious.
I had a couple used locos from different manufacturers that had hair and carpet fibres wrapped around the axles, have a look at those.
Thanks for the feedback. That is very discouraging. I thought I did enough research and bought a high quality engine. It was not inexpensive.
I will add feeders and see if its performance improves. I will buy another brand loco when I can and see how that runs.
If BLI is not the way to go, what have you guys had luck with? (I saw an Atherns Genesis at the store the other day that I liked for just under $300...thoughts?
I have many BLI locomotives. Unfortunately it would seem I have not run any of the diesels enough to notice the problem you describe. On the other hand the BLI steamers I own have logged hundreds of hours without this sort of issue.
Likewise I don't own any modern style locomotives, all mine represent the 1940-1950 era. From those Genesis, Atlas, Proto, InterMountain, and the Stewart have been good.
I have many BLI locomotives. Unfortunately it would seem I have not run any of the diesels enough to notice the problem you describe. On the other hand the BLI steamers I own have logged hundreds of hours without this sort of issue.
Likewise I don't own any modern style locomotives, all mine represent the 1940-1950 era. From those Genesis, Atlas, Proto, InterMountain, and the Stewart have been good.
im not sure what's going on but it seems like the engine to me. I haven't added feeders and all rail joiners seem fine. All conditions are identical as I can tell when it runs very well or very poorly. The only thing that seems to help is running it with the throttle wide open for some time. Of course there may be something else going on and I just don't see it.
I emailed BLI today to see if they can shed some light on it.
I just had another thought. There are several companies that make electrically conductive lubricants. Since the power is coming through the needle point axles, perhaps a 1/2 drop of this type oil on each one might solve the problem.
Along that same though perhaps powdered graphite. If graphite make certain not to use to much because if it powders up it can catch fire. I apply powdered graphite to passenger car axles for the conductivity reason. I first mix with water or alcohol to make a paste. Dip a toothpick in and use it as an applicator. Once the pasty graphite is in I spin the axle to make certain the graphite becomes a coating.
Iron horse, thank you for the great info. That's all new to this newbie. I'm learning all the time.
I've been "playing " with my train for a couple of hours now and it's fine tonight.
I'm sure progressing with my track and wiring in addition to the great advice from you pros here I'll get it right (even if it does mean replacing my first engine - I hope not)
Iron horse, thank you for the great info. That's all new to this newbie. I'm learning all the time.
I've been "playing " with my train for a couple of hours now and it's fine tonight.
I'm sure progressing with my track and wiring in addition to the great advice from you pros here I'll get it right (even if it does mean replacing my first engine - I hope not)
So here's the thing...BLI does make an amazingly detailed loco, with great sound, and anything they build honestly looks and sounds very very pretty. But BLI is just like Bachmann in some of their models. Not in the looks or features, of course, but the thing with the old Bachmann locos (Their new and improved tooling/manufacturing seems to have somewhat negated this point) was that if you got a good one it would pretty much run forever and ever. HOWEVER, you only had about a 60-70% chance of getting one of the good ones. That honestly seems to be what's going on with BLI on their diesels. The same guy at the LHS that was bemoaning their lack of consistent quality on the diesels was also saying that their steam was phenomenal. So don't give up on your BLI yet, by any means. I certainly haven't. I just need to contact them, as you're doing, and do some troubleshooting or even replacement. I've definitely not heard that BLI won't stand behind their products, so I'm assuming that both of us will be happy in the end. I just need to get my storage/shelving remodel done in the train room so I can even test out any suggestions they might throw my way.
Another thing, though, that might pertain to your particular problem and the way you're describing it is that you might have debris or gunk you're not even aware of that's slowly being worn off the rails/wheels. I personally use a brite-boy, acetone, and no-ox to treat my rails, and I know there have been times where I've seen questionable operation to begin with that quickly went away as the wheels and rails interacted. I can only assume that some little bit of fine dust, debris or film was left on the tracks in cleaning them which was worn away fairly quickly through use. Frankly, one of the best ways to keep your tracks clean is to run trains, at least with the way I clean and protect them, and an idle loco can be a problem child for a minute until it shakes off the dust. Maybe you're seeing some of that now with the improvement in performance that you're experiencing.
I do run the engine at least some every day but who knows? It's tough to trouble shoot because I have so little experience but I'll get there! After all, filed some closure rails and filed down some frogs on some of my turnouts and that seems to have fixed some issues there. I wouldn't have known to do that not too long ago...I'm getting better
One of the things you can do is this -- I guess in all the back and forth, there was no mention of how old the loco is. Take the cover off, you might have to remove the couplers first, but look at it. It is held on right at the fuel tank by a pair of things sticking out of the shell. Spread it gently and lift as you work. One side may come off easier than the other. Now that you have the naked loco out, it is time to inspect and clean the whole thing. Check the drives, those have covers over the gear mechanisms. Do not lose any parts if something falls out. Work on a clean bench, or better a light colored towel so anything which does fall out will be viable.
ON DCC nothing should shudder or stall. I have a 70's Athern 1200 switcher which I still run. It is DC and works well on the "00" setting. It has been regularly shopped and lubricated with white grease on the gear drives. Cleaning the wheels is another thing you can do while here. With the gear drive open, you can freely rotate the wheels sets and get a good cleaning on them.
AS far as feeders, you might think about a DCC booster someplace in the line. It isn't all that expensive and it will also keep things from being a pain to run ...
He stated that he bought it new 1 month ago. That doesn't mean it can't need cleaning, though, since we don't know how long it may have sat on a shelf or in what conditions.
AS far as feeders, you might think about a DCC booster someplace in the line. It isn't all that expensive and it will also keep things from being a pain to run ...
