Dcc decoders and speakers- N Scale

[arealgijoe]

What I do is put say a SDN 136 Digitrax SOUND decoder in the trailing car (behind loco) and a regular NON-sound decoder in the loco. I have several sound cars and they can be used with diesel or steam. I ONLY need to program/set the DCC ID to match the loco to be used with. IF the loco DCC ID # is 123, then all I need do (as I stated before) put the sound car on my programming track and set the ID so it matches the loco I want to use it with, takes only seconds. I do have to use a suitable DUMMY LOAD in place of a real motor so it programs properly. This is the same method I use with stand-alone amplified sound units not installed in a loco or car. With the SDN 136 I can also select diesel or steam sounds. NO wires run between the loco and trailing sound car. ................................................................................The sound car has its own electrical pickup via wired trucks. I make my own electrified trucks, same as I use for lighted a lighted caboose or freight car with a FRED, aka Flashing End of Train Device. ........................................................................Its not as hard as it sounds....... but that's another topic tho. Trucks made for electrical pick-up from the rails are available and there are conversion kits as well, but like I say I make my own.

 

[arealgijoe]

A side note here........ I take a truck with only one side insulated and use wire-wrap wire and coil it around the axles, then feed the other end thru the car floor, with slack so it turns properly. One truck picks up one rail and the other truck picks up the OTHER rail. I mad both TRUCKS identical, one is running forward and the other backwards when compared to the other truck, just as you would normally do. ................................................................... I used fiber optic fed red light from a red LED inside the car, flashing for a FRED (available at Radio Shack) or a regular red LED for caboose lights. NO batteries etc, no need for a on/off switch etc. Simple reliable and EASY... not to mention cheap as well.

 

[Bruette]

I think is often over-looked is putting the sound in car directly behind the loco. I have converted several box cars to sound. That way EVERY loco can have sound. I convert car trucks for electrical pickup and place the speaker so it fires down thru a cutout in the bottom. Easier yet is a dummy loco that came with electrical pickup for lights. I find a fully enclosed box car (or other) works best. Sound is better than say a cattle car. .................. JD

I overlooked this post when I made my first post, sorry about that!

Your "Sound Boxcars" sound like a no brainer for N scale. I have done it with Lionel and Lionel has made boxcars with sounds as well..
You must be a skilled craftsmen to fabricate all the parts, well done. I would use a conversion kit. I am a mechanic, not an engineer.
A dummy is an even better candidate as you point out.
If you have any pictures of your work I would like to seem them!

Thanks for sharing your hobby!

 

[arealgijoe]

First... I am NOT a craftsman by any stretch of the imagination. I am a TINKERer...................................... My stuff can be a bit crude, as longs as its not VISABLE and reliabale......................................I am trying to attach a photo showing a caboose with rear lights and a box car with a FRED... took a few shots to catch the FRED on due to flashing. I use fiber optic, cheap from eBay and love the product. I take a lighter and form a LENS on the end...............................................................................................................The top photo is a box car w/FRED and Caboose standing at my main station...............................................................................................................Middle is the same caboose in above picture showing the modified trucks for electrical pickup. None of this is rocket science, not even close. The trucks on the caboose is my later version using wire-wrap wire from Radio Shack. 6-8 turns seem to work well for me. Fewer turns not as reliable pickup and more increases risk of a short. ............................................................................................................The bottom is the underside of a REA converted sound car. It uses brass wipers (home brew=crude_ The truck is fastened with a 2-56 nylon screw (KD part # 256...what else! ..ha ha) just behind the leading truck is a crude cutout for the down facing speaker to blast its sounds out. The fully enclosed car makes a good speaker baffle, important for good sound output. From above none of the wiring or mods show, it looks & works just like any other car, except it has lights and or sound. Some cars have metal plates for weight, I remove them so the plastic is useable to make speaker holes in them. Then I use segmented LEAD made for adding weight to mode RR cars, putting them so they do not interfere with the sound business stuff. Just break off a piece or 2 and they come with double stick tape, quick, easy, no mess.

 

[Bruette]

Regardless of what you call yourself the end results of your work is great!

Thank you for the detailed descriptions and the pictures as well.

This is a very good solution to adding sound to my old DC locomotives that can be converted to DCC, but have very little space for speakers in some.

The end of train device is fantastic as well.

Thanks again for sharing your hobby.

 

[arealgijoe]

For FRED I now use RED LEDS that flash a stock Radio Shack item. Cheaper than FRED kits, no batteries or on/off switches, cost more to run especially if you FORGET to turn them OFF....... I run a thin fiber optic from the LED to the end/floor juncture, so its just above coupler. Hard to see when not running/on..................................................................................................................................................TRUCKS for pickup......... Not all trucks, even with metal wheels are suitable for electric pick-up. Of course plastic wheels will not work, and truck with double insulated metal wheels will not work either using axel pickup, UNLESS you buy or make wipers that rub/contact the inside of each wheel. Axel based pickup is easier for me to work with. .............................................................................................................

 

[jfkerekes]

Just purchased a Kato SD80MAC and an MRC 1808-2 sound decoder for it. According to all the documentation for the MRC decoder, it is a dual mode decoder. DCC or DC. As I do not have a DCC system yet I am still using the Kato standard Power Pack. I install the decoder and it does not do anything but produce a humming sound at a specific throttle setting.... My understanding is that I should be getting synchronized diesel sounds in DC mode... I followed all the installation directions to the T but cannot figure out what the issue is. At first I thought it was a faulty decoder but I also purchased an MRC 1960 sound decoder for my Kato ES44AC at the same time and installed it according to directions and it is doing the same thing. Anyone else have this issue? Any advice? Thanks in advance

 

[arealgijoe]

Not sure about MRC ecoders, but TCS controlers come with DC DISABLED and has to be set for dual operation. If you deasler has a DCC setup, even just a short programming track, the dealer can make sure the decoder is set to function on DC as well as DCC. MY Digitrax decoders come pre-set for dual operation, but I had to reprogram a TCS DCC decoder. MY system is Digitrax but basic programing should work fine on most DCC ssytems/controlers. .................................... configuration register CV29 controls several tinngs, on being Analog mode conversion... If the mode conversion register is [off] then the loco will NOT go anywhere on DC [analog system]. Take the loco with the DCC decoder installed to your dealer where you got the decoder... Should take only a few seconds to be up and highballing on DC as well as DCC.

 

[jfkerekes]

Supposedly they are supposed to be DC enabled out of the factory... I am concerned about what sort of mistake I may have made when all it does is make a buzzing sound when the throttle is at about 1/4 throttle. I isolated the chassis in all the places the directions tell you to... I'm new to modern N gauge and love the size... have always done O Gauge, which I love, but wanted a layout I could play with all year round that would not be strung through the entire house just to have a nice layout, but I am lost with these decoder installs. I am very good with electronics but I can't figure what I am doing wrong.

 

[Backlash]

Supposedly they are supposed to be DC enabled out of the factory... I am concerned about what sort of mistake I may have made when all it does is make a buzzing sound when the throttle is at about 1/4 throttle. I isolated the chassis in all the places the directions tell you to... I'm new to modern N gauge and love the size... have always done O Gauge, which I love, but wanted a layout I could play with all year round that would not be strung through the entire house just to have a nice layout, but I am lost with these decoder installs. I am very good with electronics but I can't figure what I am doing wrong.

Look, I have only tried running the MRC decoders off my DCC system (an NCE Powercab) so I cant really comment on how, or if they run on DC..

I suspect it could be a simple programming issue, although it does make you wonder why MRC does not have them set by default to DC operation, especially if they advertise that they work on both DC and DCC..

Might I suggest that you ring/phone or send an email to MRC and ask them what the problem could be?

 

[Bruette]

Just purchased a Kato SD80MAC and an MRC 1808-2 sound decoder for it. According to all the documentation for the MRC decoder, it is a dual mode decoder. DCC or DC. As I do not have a DCC system yet I am still using the Kato standard Power Pack. I install the decoder and it does not do anything but produce a humming sound at a specific throttle setting.... My understanding is that I should be getting synchronized diesel sounds in DC mode... I followed all the installation directions to the T but cannot figure out what the issue is. At first I thought it was a faulty decoder but I also purchased an MRC 1960 sound decoder for my Kato ES44AC at the same time and installed it according to directions and it is doing the same thing. Anyone else have this issue? Any advice? Thanks in advance

Supposedly they are supposed to be DC enabled out of the factory... I am concerned about what sort of mistake I may have made when all it does is make a buzzing sound when the throttle is at about 1/4 throttle. I isolated the chassis in all the places the directions tell you to... I'm new to modern N gauge and love the size... have always done O Gauge, which I love, but wanted a layout I could play with all year round that would not be strung through the entire house just to have a nice layout, but I am lost with these decoder installs. I am very good with electronics but I can't figure what I am doing wrong.

Did you hard wire the decoder or was it plug and play?

 

[powersteamguy1790]

Supposedly they are supposed to be DC enabled out of the factory... I am concerned about what sort of mistake I may have made when all it does is make a buzzing sound when the throttle is at about 1/4 throttle. I isolated the chassis in all the places the directions tell you to... I'm new to modern N gauge and love the size... have always done O Gauge, which I love, but wanted a layout I could play with all year round that would not be strung through the entire house just to have a nice layout, but I am lost with these decoder installs. I am very good with electronics but I can't figure what I am doing wrong.

Try placing some Kapton tape on top of the decoder and onto the frame. It sounds like your decoder isn't seated properly. The Kapton tape will stabilize the decoder to the frame.

 

[jfkerekes]

Did you hard wire the decoder or was it plug and play?

Spoke to MRC Tech support today.... turns out that this decoder, and the 1960, which I also had this issue with and returned as defective, are not dual mode any longer as of about 24 months ago. Even though the manual, and many dealers are advertising that it is, they re-tooled and made it DCC only as it ran really bad in DC mode anyway. Problem solved... I need to get a DCC System pronto!

 

[Backlash]

Spoke to MRC Tech support today.... turns out that this decoder, and the 1960, which I also had this issue with and returned as defective, are not dual mode any longer as of about 24 months ago. Even though the manual, and many dealers are advertising that it is, they re-tooled and made it DCC only as it ran really bad in DC mode anyway. Problem solved...

It is sad when manufacturers fail to notify customers of upgrades (if you could call it that) and they get caught out..

I need to get a DCC System pronto!

That is a whole new can of worms that you are about to open..

Please, do yourself a favour and don't go out and buy the first system that you find, do some research... There are many good systems on the market, but some do offer features that the others don't.. One thing that you may also want to consider is IF there are any N scale clubs in your area, what DCC system do they use??

I personally have an NCE PowerCab and I love it.. It has a modular design, meaning that it can be easily upgraded if you expand your layout by either adding a SB5a booster, or upgrading to a Power Pro 5 or 10 Amp system, (if upgrading to a Power Pro system your original PowerCab can then be used as a second throttle).. You also have the option to buy wireless throttles, or a PC (computer) interface that allows you to Program and Control your trains via a PC using the JMRI software.. I believe that you can even use an Andriod phone as a Cab/controller via its Wifi connection to the PC...

I chose the PowerCab for the simple reason that it is well supported here in Australia via my Local Hobby Shop (LHS) and that it is upgradeable.. It is well suited to a smaller layout, and it will easily run four individual trains on the four loops of my layout, although you can only toggle between two trains on the PowerCab at once (You can control the other two by selecting their address on the Cab, but it becomes tedious).. I initially overcame this problem by purchasing the PC interface, and used my PC as a second Cab/controller, operating two trains from my Powercab, and two trains from an old PC in my train room.. Alternatively, I could have just purchased a second Cab/controller instead of the PC interface to drive the other two trains..

As my layout grew, my power requirements also grew... I wanted to be able to control longer trains, as well as my switches/turnouts and also the lighting on my layout from my DCC system, so I purchased a SB5A 5Amp Booster..

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/200061479-DCC-Systems

I'm sure that others will chime in and let you know about the other DCC systems on the market..

 

[Bruette]

...
Please, do yourself a favour and don't go out and buy the first system that you find, do some research... There are many good systems on the market, but some do offer features that the others don't...

Great advice!

All NMRA compliant systems will do as they are advertised to do. Find the one that is right for you and your railroad.

 

[arealgijoe]

I have a Digitrax Zephyr Xtra system and most, not all, my decoders are also Digitrax. The Zxtra can handle 2 jump throttles as well as a number of wired, infared or radio control throttles. Cheap infared throttles are good for my needs. I made a couple very simple jump-throttles, old DC power pack can be used as well. My budget is limited and the Digitrax was affordable feature rich and very expandable, so I won't have to re-invent the proverbial wheel to expand function wise. ....................................................TRY DCC, its very addictive and you will never want to go back to the dark ages again. PS MY Digitrax system can run 1 DC loco at the same time as a number of DCC locos. BTW my Digitrax decoders work fine on BOTH DC & DCC systems. (I have a couple sections that are DC only, a couple sections are dual DC/DCC via a DPDT switch-over setup... (not a typical situation but works for me). but most of my layout is DCC. ..................................... My main lines & switch yard are DCC, my town trolley & mountain top line are DC only, my RDC, figure-8 and an oval are switchable between DC & DCC.