Converting older brass engines to DCC - how tough?

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G

Gannet

New Member
I'm re-entering the hobby after many years. I've seen the features and detail on the newer plastic and hybrid steamers, and they are very impressive. But I've also noted that the price on older brass has fallen quite a bit (often with condition problems), and a lot of prototypes are available in brass that are hard or impossible to find in modern plastic. My new layout is going to be all DCC. So now the question: how hard is it to convert older (say, 1970s) brass engines to DCC? I realize this will differ on a case by case basis, but just in general. Is this relatively straightforward, or something for all but experts to avoid?
 
Even some experts avoid it! Older brass often used PAINT as insulation. Strip the paint, and you get a metal brick. Moving parts will wear off the paint over time, and you can see where this is going...
 
Gannet said:
I'm re-entering the hobby after many years. I've seen the features and detail on the newer plastic and hybrid steamers, and they are very impressive. But I've also noted that the price on older brass has fallen quite a bit (often with condition problems), and a lot of prototypes are available in brass that are hard or impossible to find in modern plastic. My new layout is going to be all DCC. So now the question: how hard is it to convert older (say, 1970s) brass engines to DCC? I realize this will differ on a case by case basis, but just in general. Is this relatively straightforward, or something for all but experts to avoid?
Click to expand...

First off, Welcome back!

Converting a brass engine to DCC is actually quite easy. I should know, I've done hundreds. First thing to do is to check the motor for what is called stall current. All this is, is to measure the maximum amperage the motor will draw if it is stopped running, but still getting power. I have always replaced the motor, if the draw is greater than 1 amp stalled. But you should never assume that because the motor is open framed, it should be replaced. If you keep the motor, it needs to have the brushes only isolated from the frame. In these locos, there was often a wire that came from the drawbar, to one brush. This brush has a piece of insulation like shrink tubing over the spring tensioner. Just place a similar piece over the tensioner of the other brush, and they're both isolated. Often times though, depending on the make, its just easier to replace the open frame with a can motor. You can build a fancy mount for them out of brass, or just do what I do, which is to lock the motor down in a bed of black silicone sealant.

At this point you can then wire in a decoder quite easily. The gray and orange wires go to the brushes. The wire from the drawbar is replaced with either the red or black wires from the decoder. The other wire of these two is soldered to the loco frame, or attached to some part of the frame via a screw such as one holding the valve grear, etc. The yellow/blue/white wires are for the lights.

diburning said:
Even some experts avoid it! Older brass often used PAINT as insulation. Strip the paint, and you get a metal brick. Moving parts will wear off the paint over time, and you can see where this is going...
Click to expand...

Never knew an expert to avoid them Eric. They are easier to work on than most of these modern plastic locos. I also have to disagree with the "paint" as insulation. The locos from the era Gannet is asking about, unless they were certain locos from Tenshodo, were all unpainted from the factory. Factory painted brass was a phenomenon that didn't start up until the late '80s. Paint has never been used to insulate anything in a brass loco, unless the person who painted the loco, took something out that was the insulation when he stripped it down for cleaning prior to painting.

I've been collecting, custom painting, and repairing brass since I was 19 years old. I'm 58 now. I've been converting them for others to DCC since 1999. I've never had any problem converting any brass to DCC.
 


I have one Brass Loco, a PFM Y2 N.P. Consolidation. Although it has yet to be converted to DCC, I have converted enough locos to DCC that I can't picture there being any problems. I am a Digitrax user and have found the decoder instructions for Digitrax decoders to be very thorough and I really expect there to be no problems with the conversion.

I also feel brass locos are very well built and thier drive systems some of the smoothest running of all!
 
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Ditto CJ's comments. Done a few hundred myself, own several dozen. I do replace motors with modern cans, but this is optional. Never saw anything insulated with paint, unless it was accidental and fouled up the power pickups, or unless it was a do-over because some numbnutz fouled it up!
 
I've remotored repaired and regeared 9 of my brass diesels. None were factory painted but some of them do have a clear laquer on the shell, probably to prevent oxidation. None however have laquer on the chassis plate or anyplace else that may be an electrical pick up or connection.
 


Brass, like Carey stated, are easy to convert. Diesels are too, but consider thes. Many early diesels only have 4 wheel electrical pickup. Usually 2 on one truck. the opposite side on the other truck. These are best added when the conversion is completed.:cool:

Here's a peek at what a repowered and DCC'ed brass diesel looks like,prior to paint!
Article%20shark.jpg


Carey: I'd brag too, but I lost a major share of my fleet in a divorce several years ago.:(

But I am rebuilding!;)
 
I had a few brass locos and rolling stock, then I decided to sell them as they were only collecting dust. Actually, I sold them all for more than I paid for them.
 
Cjcrescent said:
First off, Welcome back!

Converting a brass engine to DCC is actually quite easy. I should know, I've done hundreds. First thing to do is to check the motor for what is called stall current. All this is, is to measure the maximum amperage the motor will draw if it is stopped running, but still getting power. I have always replaced the motor, if the draw is greater than 1 amp stalled. But you should never assume that because the motor is open framed, it should be replaced. If you keep the motor, it needs to have the brushes only isolated from the frame. In these locos, there was often a wire that came from the drawbar, to one brush. This brush has a piece of insulation like shrink tubing over the spring tensioner. Just place a similar piece over the tensioner of the other brush, and they're both isolated. Often times though, depending on the make, its just easier to replace the open frame with a can motor. You can build a fancy mount for them out of brass, or just do what I do, which is to lock the motor down in a bed of black silicone sealant.

At this point you can then wire in a decoder quite easily. The gray and orange wires go to the brushes. The wire from the drawbar is replaced with either the red or black wires from the decoder. The other wire of these two is soldered to the loco frame, or attached to some part of the frame via a screw such as one holding the valve grear, etc. The yellow/blue/white wires are for the lights.



Never knew an expert to avoid them Eric. They are easier to work on than most of these modern plastic locos. I also have to disagree with the "paint" as insulation. The locos from the era Gannet is asking about, unless they were certain locos from Tenshodo, were all unpainted from the factory. Factory painted brass was a phenomenon that didn't start up until the late '80s. Paint has never been used to insulate anything in a brass loco, unless the person who painted the loco, took something out that was the insulation when he stripped it down for cleaning prior to painting.

I've been collecting, custom painting, and repairing brass since I was 19 years old. I'm 58 now. I've been converting them for others to DCC since 1999. I've never had any problem converting any brass to DCC.
Click to expand...


This sounds so promising. My brass locos have somewhat deterred me from considering DCC. All my brass locos have can motors.

If I go DCC, I'm going to probably have to install the decoders myself. No one left around that does it where I live and the one guy that does is in a nearby city, but his work isn't good; tends to be sloppy and damages the locos. Guess I'll have to start doing some major research on how to take apart my brass.
 
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NP2626 said:
I have one Brass Loco, a PFM Y2 N.P. Consolidation. Although it has yet to be converted to DCC, I have converted enough locos to DCC that I can't picture there being any problems. I am a Digitrax user and have found the decoder instructions for Digitrax decoders to be very thorough and I really expect there to be no problems with the conversion.

I also feel brass locos are very well built and thier drive systems some of the smoothest running of all!
Click to expand...

I've yet seen a plastic steam loco or diesel run as slow and smooth as my Boo Rim steamers and I have Atlases, Katos, and Protos, which do run smooth. However the brass diesels seem to me not too crawl as smooth as the brass steamers.
 
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