Concept in mind, not sure how to start

[Raton Bob]

Compared to modern freight trains, those historic mountain railroads has sharper curves, steeper grades, and shorter trains. Most of the mountain trains I've seen in books were very short, 4 or 5 cars. You might check out this book from the library if you can: Colorado Railroads, Chronological History, by Tivis Wilkins. Lots of photos showing historic railroads in mountain terrain. Tunnels, switchbacks, mines and industries, tourist lines, tressle bridges, etc.

For real-life current tourist railroads, ride the Cumbres & Toltec, Silverton-Durango, and the cog railroad up Pikes Peak. That is, if you're ever in Colorado. Plenty of online photos of those railroads too.

Good Luck!
-Bob

 

[Nicole]

So do you think the 15 inch radius loop will be fine with my short train? I don't want it to derail in the middle of a tunnel! (Though I am going to make the mountain so that it comes off easily, for just that reason).

 

[Selector]

I am late to this thread, Nicole, but if you were interested in my studied opinion, I would work hard to throw cold water on your interest in 15" radius curves.

Conventionally, 18" radius is the minimum useful radius in HO scale, barring very specific applications...such as with geared steam servicing a quarry, remote mine, temporary logging operation in them thar hills, that sort of thing.

I grew up in the Andes mountains alongside the Ferrocarril Central Del Peru, or the Central Railway of Peru. It was surveyed and erected by British and American engineers in the very early 1900's. The valleys are very deep and very narrow, such that only in the odd instance was there provision, naturally, for a horseshoe-type curve to turn around in any one valley. In fact, it was often the case that the tracks would do one of two things: run into a wye up a valley at right angles to the one providing the axis of advancement for the main. (IOW, a switchback, but at 90 deg to one side), or they would actually deviate into such a valley for a longer run around a horseshoe curve in that valley that would permit the train to gain more altitude at a lesser grade than otherwise possible without running into more tunnels, bridges, water courses, etc on the preferred axis (valley).

Long story short, switchbacks are how trains in the eastern highlands of the Peruvian Andes get from sea level to 15,600 feet over the pass at Ticlio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticlio

One advantage to using switchbacks in your case is that all the trackage will be evident/visible to the users and onlookers for the duration of the "ride".

It will mean a bit more track laying, but you can still have curves to follow mountain contours at grade, so it's not going to be merely a vertical version of a switching layout.

I thought I'd add my two cents. I hope you don't mind the intrusion.

 

[Rotorranch]

15 inch radius is awfully tight for HO, unless you are running real small equipment. 18 inch radius is the minimum recommended for most HO.

Rotor

 

[Nicole]

I kind of like the idea of the train disappearing and reappearing somewhere else, though. It adds a little mystery and drama.

Is 18 inches recommended because the train will derail, or is it for realism purposes? What qualifies as "real small" equipment? My engine is a little less than 4 inches, and the 3 wagons are slightly less than 5. Oh wait, there are 4 wagons all together.

15-inch (approximately) is what came with the train, so we figured that is what would work.

This is the set:
http://www.ajckids.com/trains/detai...rklin&scale=A&cat=&Group=sta&Era=&Road=&yr=03

Now I want to go to Peru!

 

[UP2CSX]

Nicole, I think 15" will still be tight but workable as long as you stick with that short European equipment. However, that short fixed wheelbase locomotive can require more curvature tha you think since the fixed driving wheels exert a lot of force against the rail sides. It's one reason you commonly see American locomotives with pilot trucks, to help guide the locomotive through sharp curves without derailing.

My test would be to get the track set up as a test, even on the floor. Run your whole train for an hour. If you can do this with no derailing, your curve radius is fine.

 

[Nicole]

Cool, thanks Jim. I will try that out.

 

[Selector]

It helps a great deal to know what the engine model and the rolling stock will be. In that respect, 15" curves are probably going to be just fine....but....


....it happens that, for the vast majority of us, we want more eventually. We like the one engine, but it seems lonely, and we want something more powerful, something bigger that rekindles our interest. That is where, if you (more likely hubby ) get a hankering for a nice Mikado 2-8-2, or a German engine of the same relative size, suddenly those 15" curves are a problem. You have not provided for "growth". Unfortunately, this hobby is about growth: growth in our interests, growth in our skills, growth in our understanding, growth in our appreciation for things that we had not previously known, and growth as in, "Gawd, Hon, look at this sweet deal on a Big Boy!" Good luck with that Big Boy on 15" curves.

My message is that you would do well to consider the intended longevity of your product...your creation. If it is too simple (read "boring last week"), too restrictive in terms of adding to it or modifying it to permit growth, then it becomes a trip to the dump.

 

[Nicole]

We're going to have another track around the base of the mountain. So there is room for expansion.

The next set we're getting, sometime in the next year or two is this:
http://www.marklin.com/start/digital.html
set 29680, "Gotthard"

The crocodile train will run along the mountain track. He wants to get one of those contact tracks so that the crocodile will go up, stop, and then the little one we have will come up. When the little one arrives, the crocodile will go down to the valley station, wait, and then the little one arrives and they go back up. And so on so forth.

Meanwhile, the other train will be doing yet-to-be-determined things at the bottom of the track.

Eventually, when we have a house, we'll have a room or garage set aside for this and we will have lots of trains running around the bottom.

But we're not there yet. Right now, our goal is to create an interesting track for the little train we have. Preferably, involving lots of little cows and chalets.

We've been dreaming big, and thinking about a whole little miniature Switzerland... starting at Geneva with a lakeside scene, maybe with a boat, then going over a mountain into a sort of Bernese valley with the black forest type houses, which are similar to what they have in Bern, then a mountain into a central Switzerland valley with typical wooden chalets, then a mountain and a valley with the eastern Switzerland plaster-type houses. Kibri makes all these different kinds. Each little mountain would have its own little mountain train and/or gondola. And there would be trains running along the whole bottom of the valley.

Like I said, one step at a time. The particular track we are building is for small mountain trains, but our layout will be expanded to include larger valley trains. As long as the small track works for the small trains, we will be set for now. I mean, I figure it's going to take at least several months to build our small starter scene, so we've got time.

 

[Rotorranch]

That little train should work on the track in the set. Anything much bigger than that probably won't do well.

BTW...the Marklin R1 is 14 3/16 radius.

Marklin 24130,


C Track Curved Track, Radius R1 = 360.0 mm / 14-3/16“
Every piece is 30°.
These are the standard length pieces for a R1 radius curve.
If you need 1/2 the length, use a 24115

Rotor

 

[EvoMan454]

But if you have the space I'd recommend 22" Radius curves just for expansion reasons. If you do ever want to expand your layout and put some bigger equipment on their you'd have to replace most curves (I was using 18" and 22" curves, but decided now that I am replacing all of my curves with flex track and 26"/28" curves). The 22" curves will work good with alot of stuff but I decided to go 26"/28" for realism and reliability. Even still some equipment have troubles with 22" curves so I want to be on the safe side. Even though 22" curves can work most of my equipment, I hate the way it looks.

 

[Selector]

The larger engine you are contemplating will require a substantial setback of the adjacent scenery and lineside items, such as utility or signaling poles, tunnel portals, and so on. The longer the engine, and the tighter the curves, the more the superstructure of the engine will take up space inside of the curves when negotiating them. Your 15" curves will be a huge liability when that engine first runs on your layout....if it can use them at all.

There is good sense in starting with little steps...just don't make the critical ones missteps!

 

[Boilerbuster]

A concept of mine is have scenery make it look as if your climbing and only use a small incline but build your table and differant hights on eather side of the room. that way it can look like your up in the mountians on one side and out on the level on the other side.