Coffee Shop XXXVI-2/4/2013

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Chrylslers newest products appear to be substantially better than their '70s and '80s offerings. my youngest son bought a Jeep for day to day drives between Oceanside CA and Camp Pendleton. He uses it more than his Roush Mustang, and enjoys it with no complaint.

Not all the 70's and 80's stuff Chrysler put out was bad. I would expect the muscle cars to end up in the bone yard early. Nature of the beast. Many of the cars they made for the low-end market went early too. Some of their heavier vehicles weren't too bad. I have an 81 3/4 ton Ram van (formerly called Sportsman and Tradesman, 81 was the first year for the Ram van) that has high mileage and is still on it's original engine, the venerable 318. It has a new tranny and the rear end has been changed out and somebody disconnected the electronic ignition and changed it over to breaker points but I guess that has to be expected in a 30+ year old vehicle. I expect the change in ignition systems was due to the fact that Chrysler's lean burn system wasn't good for much other than starting fires.

My last Mopar experience was with one of Iococa's '85 LeBaron Ks, which died 79k miles in '89.

My condolences. My mother had one of the LeBaron convertibles. It was an 88 model. Came loaded with all the latest electronics including the talking message center. What a piece of junk! With a 2.5L engine and 4 speed auto trans it was underpowered and couldn't get out of the way if you threw a rock at it. It was dead before 70K.

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Good morning. It's 55° with 100% humidity. Heavy clouds this morning becoming partly cloudy later. The high will be 68°.

I thought I was feeling better this morning but I'm making plenty of spelling errors. That usually means something's still amiss. Oh well, guess I'll just have to live with it. Layout cleaning today unless something or someone interferes. I started with the park. If that was any indication I've got a lot of work ahead of me.

Before:

After:

 

[Cjcrescent]

... My mother had one of the LeBaron convertibles. It was an 88 model. Came loaded with all the latest electronics including the talking message center. What a piece of junk! With a 2.5L engine and 4 speed auto trans it was underpowered and couldn't get out of the way if you threw a rock at it. It was dead before 70K.

Funny you should mention the Lebaron. Mine was a Dodge 600, the Dodge brand of the Lebaron. IIRC, it was a 1988 as well. Mine only had a 2.2 liter 4-cylinder motor. I haven't trusted a 4 cylinder engine ever again based on the performance of this one. Since then I haven't even looked at Chrysler for a vehicle, and I've always made sure that all the cars/trucks I buy, have at least a V-6.

 

[Boris]

Funny you should mention the Lebaron. Mine was a Dodge 600, the Dodge brand of the Lebaron. IIRC, it was a 1988 as well. Mine only had a 2.2 liter 4-cylinder motor. I haven't trusted a 4 cylinder engine ever again based on the performance of this one. Since then I haven't even looked at Chrysler for a vehicle, and I've always made sure that all the cars/trucks I buy, have at least a V-6.

It appears that many share the same experience with the "K Kar". I look at the Ram trucks, and then the alarm bells ring!!!!!!

Joe

 

[Boris]

It's raining in Central Jersey, the temperature is 41° F and is supposed to drop throughout the day, The rain is expected to change over to snow sometime between tonight's evening commute and 0300 tomorrow, depending on which forecasting source you use. Predicted accumulations range from 2" to 9". The only thing they agree on is the probability of power failures due to 40+mph wind gusts and heavy snow.

Last time we had one of these events was in early November, when we were surprised by 12" of heavy, wet snow and no power for 3 days. The snow was too wet for the snow blower to handle, so it was shoveled. I certainly am not looking forward to that prospect.

Have a great day!

Joe

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I personally haven't had much trouble with Dodge vehicles. Plymouth, yes! Chrysler, yes! I squeezed 250,000+ miles out of a Dodge Omni. Gave it up for scrap after I busted the bottom out of the tranny. By that time the engine (2.2L) had so little compression I had to go 70 down one hill to go 40 up the next hill. I bought an old Dodge truck that had about 125,000 miles on it. I sold it (still running) at 240,000 miles. It had a 225 slant six. The smallest Dodge van I had fell into the 'let's see how big an engine we can stick in it' category. It was an A100 compact van with a 318 V8. It came from the factory that way. It was virtually impossible to pull the distributor without pulling the engine. If it was a little slimmer I could probably park it inside the Dodge van I have now.

 

[Boris]

I personally haven't had much trouble with Dodge vehicles. Plymouth, yes! Chrysler, yes! I squeezed 250,000+ miles out of a Dodge Omni. Gave it up for scrap after I busted the bottom out of the tranny. By that time the engine (2.2L) had so little compression I had to go 70 down one hill to go 40 up the next hill. I bought an old Dodge truck that had about 125,000 miles on it. I sold it (still running) at 240,000 miles. It had a 225 slant six. The smallest Dodge van I had fell into the 'let's see how big an engine we can stick in it' category. It was an A100 compact van with a 318 V8. It came from the factory that way. It was virtually impossible to pull the distributor without pulling the engine. If it was a little slimmer I could probably park it inside the Dodge van I have now.

Ah yes, the Slant 6. Wife had a '70 duster when we first met. Could not destroy that engine or tranny, but the body rot was horrible. Road salt just ate it away. Ended up junking it prematurely.

Joe

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Ah yes, the Slant 6. Wife had a '70 duster when we first met. Could not destroy that engine or tranny, but the body rot was horrible. Road salt just ate it away. Ended up junking it prematurely.

Joe

Yep, that road salt will eat a car alive. We don't use that stuff down here so car bodies tend to last a long time. However the climate can be hard on engines if they're not maintained properly. Had one guy who bought a new Pontiac Sunbird and used nothing but 5W30 oil in the engine (1.8L) because that's what it said on the oil cap. When it started burning oil he did what he should have done in the first place and checked the owners manual. Right there in black and white it stated 10W30 should be used in this part of the country because of the heat. I had the same model of car he had with the same size engine. It had 50,000 miles on it when I got it and I put 100,000+ more miles on it in two years before I traded it in on a 93 Buick Skylark. I used 10W30 in it in the winter and 30W in the summer. The only engine related issues I had with it was the oil seals and replacing the timing belt. (I hate those timing belts!). That was the last four cylinder equipped car I owned. Everything afterward had at least a V6 and no vehicle that had a bow-tie on it. I have bad, bad luck with Chevy's.

 

[bnsf971]

Funny you should mention the Lebaron. Mine was a Dodge 600, the Dodge brand of the Lebaron. IIRC, it was a 1988 as well. Mine only had a 2.2 liter 4-cylinder motor. I haven't trusted a 4 cylinder engine ever again based on the performance of this one. Since then I haven't even looked at Chrysler for a vehicle, and I've always made sure that all the cars/trucks I buy, have at least a V-6.

It appears that many share the same experience with the "K Kar". I look at the Ram trucks, and then the alarm bells ring!!!!!!

Joe

Doesn't the "K" stand for "Krap"?

 

[montanan]

Doesn't the "K" stand for "Krap"?

I had an '85 Dodge Daytona with a turbocharger 2.2 four I bought used from my cousin with 70,000 miles on it. It was a great little car. If I kept my foot out of the turbo, I could het fuel mileage in the mid to upper 30's and if you pushed it, the performance was great. I kept it for about three years and it was still running great when I sold it. Guess it was a fluke. I probably will never oun another mopar even though I did have good luck with the little Daytona and a '68 Charger 440 six pack.

 

[IronBeltKen]

I have a 2003 Dodge Durango with >230000 miles on it, still going strong. But we're setting aside some cash so we can replace it with a pickup truck when it finally dies. Won't need the seating capacity of an SUV anymore with 3 of our 4 kids no longer living at home.

 

[Boris]

Yep, that road salt will eat a car alive. We don't use that stuff down here so car bodies tend to last a long time. However the climate can be hard on engines if they're not maintained properly. Had one guy who bought a new Pontiac Sunbird and used nothing but 5W30 oil in the engine (1.8L) because that's what it said on the oil cap. When it started burning oil he did what he should have done in the first place and checked the owners manual. Right there in black and white it stated 10W30 should be used in this part of the country because of the heat. I had the same model of car he had with the same size engine. It had 50,000 miles on it when I got it and I put 100,000+ more miles on it in two years before I traded it in on a 93 Buick Skylark. I used 10W30 in it in the winter and 30W in the summer. The only engine related issues I had with it was the oil seals and replacing the timing belt. (I hate those timing belts!). That was the last four cylinder equipped car I owned. Everything afterward had at least a V6 and no vehicle that had a bow-tie on it. I have bad, bad luck with Chevy's.

I have a theory about Chevys (and other GM cars and trucks); that as long as you keep them away from the dealers and neighborhood garages, they will be reliable and last indefinitely.

I had a GMC Jimmy that I leased back in '96. I went to the dealer for scheduled service. All sorts of nuisance repetitive non warranty issues developed. I turned it back at another dealer, then bought a 2002 Monte Carlo SS. Eleven years and 85,000 miles later - yea, I know it's not even broken in yet - It still runs well. I have routinely performed repairs and maintenance myself.

My '92 Silverado pickup was never in a dealers repair facility and I had it until 2004, when I sold it it had well over 200,000 miles. The replacement had some issues which were quickly resolved, although I never cared for it.

Joe

 

[kbkchooch]

I'm setting here and reading some of these postings and laughing

1982-1985 I worked at a dealership that sold Dodge cars, Dodge trucks, Honda's and Lincoln/Mercury. Those 3 years taught me one thing. I will never own a Chrysler product, no matter what they say. The cars were awful, the corporation was worse! The K car was Krap, along with the rest of the line.
DODGE, Drips Oil Drips Grease Everywhere! Never saw a 2.2 liter motor that didn't need a head gasket.
It was kinda funny, even with the 7/70 warranty, owning one was expensive, whether Chysler was paying the bill or not. Maintenance on the Honda's was high (back then a 30,000 mile service was $275.00) the folks that spent the least were the Lincoln folks. Weird huh ?
25 years with the General, I'm a bowtie guy at heart. With the Olds at 200K and still running, and the Impala at only 60K, I'll stick with them for a bit.
(the ranger on the other hand, is going bye-bye)

 

[montanan]

I will agree with you about never owiing a Chrysler product. That Daytona was my last. I used to be a GM and bowtie fan. My 72 Chevy pickup had over 300,000 miles on it. It as cheaper to replace an engine at 250,000 dute to valve seals than buy a new truck. I also have a '59 Impala that is now a restomod. Looks completely stock but is sporting a Corvette engine with a 6 speed manual tranny, 4 wheel disc brakes and too many other upgrades to mention. It was a frame off restoration. I have a 2005 Buick LeSabre that I really like. It's great for long trips, exceeding 34 mpg on the highway and I usually get around 30 mpg for every day driving. Unfortunatey I'll never buy another GM vehicle because of On-Star. My LeSabre is (was) exuipped with it. I never needed it, therfore never used it, and in many parts of Montana is totally useluss due to the lack of cell service in many areas. I refuse to pay for features on vehicles that I don't want. Was going to buy a 2013 Ford Fusion until I found out that you couldn't get one without SYNC. I don't need to be constantly "connected" and I learned how to operate a radio in a car well ove 50 years ago. I've got it down pretty good by now. Another useless (for me ) feature hat I wouldn't use, but am expected to pay for.

 

[Boris]

I'm setting here and reading some of these postings and laughing

1982-1985 I worked at a dealership that sold Dodge cars, Dodge trucks, Honda's and Lincoln/Mercury. Those 3 years taught me one thing. I will never own a Chrysler product, no matter what they say. The cars were awful, the corporation was worse! The K car was Krap, along with the rest of the line.
DODGE, Drips Oil Drips Grease Everywhere! Never saw a 2.2 liter motor that didn't need a head gasket.
It was kinda funny, even with the 7/70 warranty, owning one was expensive, whether Chysler was paying the bill or not. Maintenance on the Honda's was high (back then a 30,000 mile service was $275.00) the folks that spent the least were the Lincoln folks. Weird huh ?
25 years with the General, I'm a bowtie guy at heart. With the Olds at 200K and still running, and the Impala at only 60K, I'll stick with them for a bit.
(the ranger on the other hand, is going bye-bye)

Good story Karl, I'm still laughing. After the LeBaron fiasco - yes it blew a head gasket - I went over to Mercury, with which I was mostly satisfied.
I started buying Chevys in '99 and stayed with them until I bought the wife a Caddie in '08. Still drive the MC SS with pride. Olds - my very first new car was a '69 442 - had a bad experience with a '77 Cutlas Supreme that no one could fix, turned out to be a bad Catalytic Converter, which pushed me to alternative brands. Shame that the General gave up on Olds.

Joe

 

[Boris]

I will agree with you about never owiing a Chrysler product. That Daytona was my last. I used to be a GM and bowtie fan. My 72 Chevy pickup had over 300,000 miles on it. It as cheaper to replace an engine at 250,000 dute to valve seals than buy a new truck. I also have a '59 Impala that is now a restomod. Looks completely stock but is sporting a Corvette engine with a 6 speed manual tranny, 4 wheel disc brakes and too many other upgrades to mention. It was a frame off restoration. I have a 2005 Buick LeSabre that I really like. It's great for long trips, exceeding 34 mpg on the highway and I usually get around 30 mpg for every day driving. Unfortunatey I'll never buy another GM vehicle because of On-Star. My LeSabre is (was) exuipped with it. I never needed it, therfore never used it, and in many parts of Montana is totally useluss due to the lack of cell service in many areas. I refuse to pay for features on vehicles that I don't want. Was going to buy a 2013 Ford Fusion until I found out that you couldn't get one without SYNC. I don't need to be constantly "connected" and I learned how to operate a radio in a car well ove 50 years ago. I've got it down pretty good by now. Another useless (for me ) feature hat I wouldn't use, but am expected to pay for.

Nice Impala, Looks great.

Best feature of On-Star is the discount on my comprehensive coverage. Most of the on-star features are GPS activated. The phone service provided isn't really useful, however, and the Navigation system that came with the Caddie is better than what On-star provides.

SYNC works fine, my son loves it.He has it in his Mustang. But I see your point. If you don't need it...or can't use it.....why have it? I get the impression - from advertising - that GM is somewhat getting away from On-star and Sirius Radio, by offering other services that work better with Droids and I-Pads etc. On-Star is already a 12+ year old technology.

I'm just not ready to buy a new car/truck in the near future. so it really don't matter to me.

Joe

 

[montanan]

On-Star is getting a little long in the tooth, and is really nothing more than a higher powered cell phone. If there's no cell service, it doesn't work. I have been looking at new cars and would prefer an American car, but with my feelings about Chrysler, and a no go on Ford or GM because of them expexting me to pay for features I don't need, I guess it will be a foreign manufacturer. One problem I have here in Montana is that many manufacturers such as Lexus, Infinity, Acura, and many others don't even have a dealership in the state, let alone locally. Looks like a VW Passat may be a possibility, but I do have a few other classics that I drive on a regular basis when the weather is nice. The '59 Impala goes away to the back of the shop for the winter, but I do drive a '59 Chevy Bel-Air, a 62 Studebaker GT Hawk and a couple of others on a fairly regular basis. I hate trailer queens.

 

[kbkchooch]

Montanaman, That is one gorgeous Impala. A buddy of mine had a black one back in high school. We used to call it the Batmobile!

My 02 Impala LS is black also, with dark tinted glass.....kinda sinister looking but with a V6, it's bark is worse than its bite!!

 

[montanan]

The '59 is a lot of fun, and it can haul too. The C06 Corvette engine is fantastic and with the 6 speed and only a .308 rear end, it gets great fuel mileage. Sound fantastic with the Thrustmaster exhaust. Found it in a bard a few years ago and was not intending to do too much, but the rubber parts were so dried out, before I knew it I had it all apart, so I did a frame off on it. My only problem was repainting it black. A black car looks great, but the work to keep it clean is a pain. Here are a few more pics.

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

1982-1985 I worked at a dealership that sold Dodge cars, Dodge trucks, Honda's and Lincoln/Mercury. Those 3 years taught me one thing. I will never own a Chrysler product, no matter what they say. The cars were awful, the corporation was worse!

1980-89 were the big financial trouble years for Chrysler. They needed cheap cars they could sell fast. The Reliant K, Dodge Aries (another K car), the 600, New Yorker (that was a dog! And a K car as well), Omni/Horizon, Fifth Avenue, LeBaron (still another K car!) and some others all fit the bill. They were what were called 'throwaway' cars. Drive it 70,000 - 80,000 miles, toss it away and get another one. They weren't as interested in longevity as they were in sales at that point. They got themselves out of debt (mostly) but their image took a big hit.