Broadway Limited HO Big Boy,..problems

[beiland]

I have a brand new (second hand) HO Big-Boy steamer manufactured by BLI. It is actually a Blueline model #4020 that the previous owner installed a motor decoder
(NCE D13SRP) into the stock blueline engine, and addressed the engine to #4020. It has set in my collection of unused engines for some number of years while I worked on building a new dcc layout. .It looks to be absolutely new.

I got it out of its original box a few days ago to give it its first test run. The sound was fantastic, and it began running just fine once the throttle got advanced far enough. On the bottom loop, right hand side of the room where there are very few turnouts, it seemed to be fine. But on the left had side were there are a number of turnouts in a row, it wanted to stall,... it was tripping the PSX boards.(very often light indicated) Sometimes it would indicate a short, and other times it would not, it would just act it out,...stall, then restart, the stall again.

I have a number of other decoder equipped engines, both diesel and steam that do NOT have any problems with this same section of track. In fact I immediately got out one of my Allegheny's equipped with a tsunami, and it ran this gauntlet with no problems,..over and over.

What makes this Big Boy act like this??
I'm searching for answers. It would really help if any folks gave me links to a nice BIG drawing of engine, and some videos that addressed the disassembly of the loco??

For some strange reason I am suspicious of the 'swing' of the 2 engines (truck assemblies). I think I detect an interference with this swing action with the chassis parts above them? I'll try to illustrate that later today with some photos.

I don't imagine the original owner needed to access the boiler areas to install the decoder, as all he had to do was open up the coal load in the tender.
And certainly this engine has MORE than enough weight to not be having wheel contact problems.
Any other folks have any problems with these Big Boys?

 

[NVSrr1500]

BLI has issues with contacts. I have a similar problem with a centipede set. I haven’t looked into fixing that yet. Sounds like what you have is the same. A bunch of failed contacts. Or an out of gauge wheel set. It is fine where there are no turns. But has issues where there are turns outs. An out of gauge set will do that on turnouts the flanges are to close together and they hit the tight spots through the closure rails and cause momentary short. Giving that very result. Or a wire is bare in a spot on the engine and where the engines shift going through turnouts, that wire contacts where it shouldn’t. I would start with making sure everything in gauge

 

[beiland]

OKAY lets see if I can give a clear explanation of what I did.

Because I was experiencing what I thought to be repeated shorting problems, I first disconnected the tender, so I could inspect each unit individually. Could there be some sort of problem between the running gear and the chassis? I set the loco itself on a nice flat surface, and tried swinging the 2 individual trucks (engines) side to side. I detected what I thought was some varying non-smoothness in the motions of both trucks, particularly the front one, Those big steam pipes had a joint that appeared to interfere with one of the rods of the running gear, and particularly on one side of the engine?


At the same time I noticed that the big steam pipe feeding the aft pistons was also experiencing too tight of a clearance. The pair would on occasion interfere with smooth swinging of the rear truck.


Neither truck appeared to swing as smooth as I felt it should be. I was now rolling this whole boiler section around in my hands, looking for any other spring loaded button that I thought should be there to help controlling this 'fit/connection' between the trucks and the chassis. Suddenly I detect the sound of something following off onto my plywood floor. It turns out to be a very small screw. I set it aside and continue my search.

It seems to me that the boiler section is setting down by the bow, and that front truck is not properly restrained. I decided to remove the shell,...the shell is a heavy cast metal affair that removes with a single screw,...amazing. This is when the second small screw falls out.! Where are these coming from ? !

I can't see much of power transmission gear unless I remove the electrical board running down the center over everything. I kept looking for the home for those 2 small identical screws? Wait a minute I think I found it. It screws this spring loaded arrangement to chassis,..







That is the spring loaded 'pin' I've been looking for that keeps a proper distance between the chassis and that front truck. It is also configured to positive restrain the front truck to its proper position. Here it is when its been screwed back into position,...hiding under that drive shaft,..





I screwed those 2 screws back in tightly, then put the electrical board back in place. Then I add the tender back on and it RUNS like a CHARM !!

MY QUESTIONS:
How did these 2 little screws get loose?
I am suspecting they were never properly tightened upon assembly at the factory?

 

[beiland]

The original 'exploded parts diagram' that came with the loco did not show this spring loaded pin that I discovered loos

I do however discover this diagram that not only shows one for the front truck, but I think 2 for the rear truck? Is that true (sorry only found a PDF that I could not mark-up). ?

 

[flyboy2610]

Great job on the detective work!

 

[Selector]

OKAY lets see if I can give a clear explanation of what I did.

Because I was experiencing what I thought to be repeated shorting problems, I first disconnected the tender, so I could inspect each unit individually. Could there be some sort of problem between the running gear and the chassis? I set the loco itself on a nice flat surface, and tried swinging the 2 individual trucks (engines) side to side. I detected what I thought was some varying non-smoothness in the motions of both trucks, particularly the front one, Those big steam pipes had a joint that appeared to interfere with one of the rods of the running gear, and particularly on one side of the engine?


At the same time I noticed that the big steam pipe feeding the aft pistons was also experiencing too tight of a clearance. The pair would on occasion interfere with smooth swinging of the rear truck.


Neither truck appeared to swing as smooth as I felt it should be. I was now rolling this whole boiler section around in my hands, looking for any other spring loaded button that I thought should be there to help controlling this 'fit/connection' between the trucks and the chassis. Suddenly I detect the sound of something following off onto my plywood floor. It turns out to be a very small screw. I set it aside and continue my search.

It seems to me that the boiler section is setting down by the bow, and that front truck is not properly restrained. I decided to remove the shell,...the shell is a heavy cast metal affair that removes with a single screw,...amazing. This is when the second small screw falls out.! Where are these coming from ? !

I can't see much of power transmission gear unless I remove the electrical board running down the center over everything. I kept looking for the home for those 2 small identical screws? Wait a minute I think I found it. It screws this spring loaded arrangement to chassis,..







That is the spring loaded 'pin' I've been looking for that keeps a proper distance between the chassis and that front truck. It is also configured to positive restrain the front truck to its proper position. Here it is when its been screwed back into position,...hiding under that drive shaft,..





I screwed those 2 screws back in tightly, then put the electrical board back in place. Then I add the tender back on and it RUNS like a CHARM !!

MY QUESTIONS:
How did these 2 little screws get loose?
I am suspecting they were never properly tightened upon assembly at the factory?

Congratulations on figuring this out and fixing it. This engine is heavy, and it's motor generates a lot of torque that makes it negotiate curves with relative ease...otherwise it would not pull much, which would turn off a lot of buyers. The typical trackwork of all of us, except for the very best modelers (I am not one) means that the engines under the boiler are subject to lateral and dynamic forces much like what the prototype endures. Things require periodic maintenance, a once-over, about every 20 hours of running or so. This includes lube, at least on the rod pins and the wheel bushings. I have used, if you are interested, auto-transmission fluid for this. I use the plastics/paints safe formula, used to be Dexron II-Mercon, but there's a newer formulation now.

 

[CambriaArea51]

If this happens again, which I hope it doesn't, a very small amount of loc tight would keep them from coming loose again.
Great work finding the problem, this may help someone else down the road.

 

[KriegslokBR52]

Probably just from running, this is a mechanical part, so just like a car it needs periodic maintenance or at least a check to see everything is in order.

 

[beiland]

Certainly not from my running it,....almost none before I found this fault.

And i don't think the entity that sold it to me would have noticed such a fault that they failed to express it before selling it to me.

Like I think I mentioned it appeared to be almost brand new when I first opened it up for my first testing of it just recently.

PS: I made this forum posting to see if anyone else had any such problems with incomplete factory assembly,....and to put notice out there of such problems with articulated locos that had problems with the swing of the 2 separate engines.

 

[scott7891]

Certainly not from my running it,....almost none before I found this fault.

And i don't think the entity that sold it to me would have noticed such a fault that they failed to express it before selling it to me.

Like I think I mentioned it appeared to be almost brand new when I first opened it up for my first testing of it just recently.

PS: I made this forum posting to see if anyone else had any such problems with incomplete factory assembly,....and to put notice out there of such problems with articulated locos that had problems with the swing of the 2 separate engines.

To be fair, BlueLines are 20 year old engines when BLI was a new company with growing pains. Expect to deal with issues on these old models. These are nothing like the new Paragon 4s that have updated tooling and fixed the issues of previous models.