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Hello, All
I thought I'd show everyone how I was doing on a kit I bought from Stevenson Preservation Lines.
I think it would be considered a beginner's kit, compared to the difficulty of more modern brass engines. In this case the parts were put in the box before I was born.
Bob Stevenson upgraded the motor before the kit left his hands. I'd bet the original motor was probably corroded.
I'm posting here to challenge myself to work on it more.
First Truck mostly done. I have since completed this truck and one more.
The As-Delivered frame with the new motor. The frame has cold solder joints and you can see where one has failed completely. I took the frame apart for repairs.
I set up a jig to repair the frame. I wanted to reheat the cold solder joints and repair the gap. First lesson learned: Don't rush. You'll notice I re-kitted the frame.
...And we're good again. Lots of clean-up, though. Second Lesson Learned: Use Fine grade files and/or sandpaper to clean the crap off. I initially used a large file to clean the brass and ended up polishing the scratches out. IOW, Don't Rush!
This is where I'm at today. The frame has been cleaned and the motor and drive shaft work well. The next step is to attach the decking and several other parts.
Frank
That looks like a challenging, but fun build! Looking good!
Keep us up to date as you progress further into this.
Thanks.
I have several problems to work on as I go.
1) Isolate both trucks to allow DCC. This kit was created when DC ruled.
2) Get power from all 8 wheels. I'm thinking of using Rod Miller's wipers but haven't figured out how to install them.
3) Figure out how to get a Kadee coupler on this thing:
I found a reference an article in the Narrow Gauge Short Line Gazette November 2020 titled Brass Bashing by Craig Symington. He was working in HOn3 so it's the start of an idea. Also, will I have to electrically isolate the coupler's to prevent shorting when connected to a car with un-insulated wheels? If so, how will I do it? There are comments in the instructions regarding the coupler lift pin handle about this.
Latest update: I added the front deck. In doing so, I didn't support the old work properly and previous work overheated and sagged. Easy to fix but annoying that I didn't catch it beforehand.
Experience is what we get correcting the mistakes that knowledge would have prevented. I'm getting a lot of experience.
I probably should have used silver solder on the frame repairs. I need to learn more about silver solder.
Very cool build. Looking forward to seeing more progress.
There's a lot of cleaning/polishing to do before the next part - the rear deck - can be soldered in place. I now have some silver solder and I will support the rear beam before I do the work.
Also, I'm going to look into 'pickling'. It's a method to chemically clean the brass using an old crock pot and vinegar or other chemical solution. It won't remove excess solder so I also have to get better at soldering.
FYI: if you try pickling brass, don't use the same crock pot you cook with. As I understand it, pickling leaves a permanent residue of copper on the crock pot that will poison food.
This is where I started the process of adding the rear deck to the frame. I used the 'bits of solder in flux' method. My thought was to use silver solder (aka high temp solder) to add the deck, which would strengthen the joints for adding more details without having to worry about failed solder joints. Boy, was I wrong...
You will see here where the low-temp solder got soft before the high-temp solder was able to grab.
I have to clean ALL the old solder off, realign the pieces, then re-solder everything correctly.
I believe the motor mount (right) caused tension creating the 'spring' effect when the low-temp solder got soft.
More adventures await... 8^/
Do it right or do it over. The good thing about working with brass is if you make a mistake, you can fix the problem.
I took the motor mount and gear tower off. Laying it flat makes it easier to work.
I am going to remove as much of the soft solder as possible and re-solder ALL the joints with Silver Solder. My plan is to take each joint out, one at a time with solder wick, and replace that joint with silver solder, hopefully keeping everything in alignment and square. You can see some brass stock above the frame. I will cut short pieces of this and use it to prop up the end beams while I work on them.
Hopefully, I won't re-kit the thing again... 8^/
Frank
I was not looking forward to this... I rethought my plan. Using the previous plan would have diluted the solder, giving more strength than regular solder (and higher melting temperatures )but less strength (and lower melting temperatures) than silver solder. I was afraid this would bite me in the butt later as I add more details. So I opted to re-do the joints completely using only silver solder.
Do it right or do it over. 8^/
I also got my Dremel out. I'm going to see if using a wire brush in the Dremel allows the cleaning process to go faster or if I'll have to polish everything by hand again.
I have wondered about other people's work areas and how big and/or involved they are. So I'm sharing mine. This is it for the near future. (It's not always this neat.) I am working on a bigger/nicer area in the shed you can see the corner of through the window.
Here is the on-going project. I still don't have any pickling area set up... see above picture. I fell back to isopropyl alcohol. Wiping the areas with an alcohol rag took most of the crud off. Then I polished brass with 400 grit sandpaper. This process took the cleaning down to minutes instead of only sanding/polishing. I also cut an acid brush down to make a scrubber for the alcohol and used it in some spots. If the alcohol dries before you can wipe it off, re-apply and try again.
Next adventure: the frame is not square. I need to figure out what areas need to be adjusted before re-attaching the rear deck. Oh, Joy.
An oxy-propane torch like the Smith mini torch might make you life much easier as the heat can be very tightly focused. It is probably too hot for soft solder, I always used silver solder. If money is no object, look for a laser welder, they are the bomb for tiny parts next to each other.
An oxy-propane torch like the Smith mini torch might make you life much easier as the heat can be very tightly focused. It is probably too hot for soft solder, I always used silver solder. If money is no object, look for a laser welder, they are the bomb for tiny parts next to each other.
Thanks, I'll look into it. I'm using the large Bernzomatic soldering torch right now. I can focus the flame pretty well but am having a problem with the larger metal areas that need to be heated. It might just be me needing more patience.
I have an American Beauty Resistance Soldering Unit but only bought the detail tweezers so. I'm thinking about the larger probes.
Haven't heard about a laser welder. I'll look into that too.
(Sigh) Back to Square Zero...
I removed the front deck. The rear deck is still off. I'm planning on squaring the main frame on a flat surface while re-attaching both decks. I'll use hard solder (aka silver solder) on the whole assembly.
I chose to re-kit the frame again in order to re-square it. I'm going to remove as much of the soft solder as I can before re-soldering with hard solder and making sure it stays square while working on it.
I think the easiest way to remove to old solder is to (gently) heat the part in a blow torch then wiping the solder with a wet rag. This should remove a lot of solder without causing more frustration.
If I wasn't learning so much (by making so many mistakes), I would have switched to an easier project... like finger-painting
Anybody know a brass wizard that can chip in with comments? It would be very helpful.
It looks like you need more heat. Brass and aluminum just soak it up and pull it away from where you want it very fast. Brass is easy to cut and shape but it is more difficult to drill, tap and solder.
Another challenge is how metal moves as it’s being heated. It can be square to start but more heat in one part can move it out of place. Good fixturing and even heat can help. Or go nuclear with the heat so it doesn’t have time to spread. That method occasionally requires remaking a part because they disappear.
Heat control is the reason I bought the Resistance Soldering Unit. For the large parts I'm working on at the moment, the probe would probably be better than the tweezers. And, of course, I bought the tweezers first... 8^/ ... which is why I'm using a small torch for most work.
I thought parts only disappear on the floor! 8^)
I currently have to make 2 side ladders because the originals "disappeared". 8^/
In the grand scheme of things, making side ladders from brass stock SHOULD be easy. (Knock wood!)
I got a chance to work on this... here's the first step of the 3rd(?) frame re-do. The solder joints are much cleaner and the frame is square but still needs more work on this end. I need to solder each joint as a separate step: solder, let cool, repeat on another joint.
With that many parts in close proximity, I would fixture them up and try to do it all in one go. Local heating and cooling that close can cause expansion and contraction that can actually break previous joints. It looks like you could use more flux to help the solder flow. Also heat around the joint to avoid over heating the metal at the joint.
KJD, I looked into the Smith Mini Torch you mentioned. Where can I get the cans of oxygen?
I used the flame on the back of the parts this time to heat them, which is how I got the best results so far.
I tried what I thought would be clamps, etc, on earlier iterations (and obviously failed), which caused my first re-kit. On this try, I had problems with gravity causing the solder to collect at lower (unseen in the pictures) areas. What kind of 'fixture' should I use? How would you clamp this? Do you have any examples?
Thanks for your comments.
KJD,
Thanks for the tip on using more flux. It definitely helped. Pictures to follow
I think you can get cans of oxygen at a home improvement type store. I don’t know how you get rid of the empties though, they can’t go in recycle or garbage. A better option is a small refillable tank from a welding supply. The small cans run out quickly.
For fixtures, I use ceramic honey comb and T-pins in the holes to hold pieces. It is good, if brazing, to have a non perforated ceramic block under the honey comb block. Another helpful thing is a Third Hand
www.riogrande.com
If the solder is running out of the joints it’s too hot. If you have a torch, you can use silver solder which melts around 1150-1450F. I don’t know about silver bearing solder, you’ll have to look that up. Soft solder with lead and tin melts around 400F and is used with an iron or resistance soldering iron. Brass trains are usually built with soft solder. A butane torch can be 2000F so you would always want it moving to not over heat if using soft solder or silver bearing solder.
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