best paint to use

[NYSW F45]

i know its a broad subject, but i couldn't figure out a good title in such a short box. Not looking for like overall best brand. More like is there a brand out there where the paint is a lil thinner and doesn't cover up minor details on locomotive shells? I've only used tamiya paint for my nysw models. Regular gloss black and camel yellow. The yellow is about the closest i've found that matches, but never really looked at other brands to see. But when i use the paint it seems to lay down thick/heavy. Im not spraying alot on it, using very short strokes with a good distance away as not to soak the model in paint.

Is there anything I can do to keep more detail? Also is Tamiya paint a good train paint? And lastly if i just wanted to weather my locomotives with some soot/dirt that looked like it ran down the sides from the roof and left streaks which would be a good weathering kit to use? also rust the wheels.

 

[Cjcrescent]

...I've only used tamiya paint for my nysw models. ...But when i use the paint it seems to lay down thick/heavy. Im not spraying alot on it, using very short strokes with a good distance away as not to soak the model in paint.

Is there anything I can do to keep more detail? Also is Tamiya paint a good train paint? And lastly if i just wanted to weather my locomotives with some soot/dirt that looked like it ran down the sides from the roof and left streaks which would be a good weathering kit to use? also rust the wheels.

First off a couple of questions. Is this acrylic based or solvent based? Are you thinning it at all? Are you priming with a neutral color, (grey or tan)? Which color are you applying first?

It really sounds like you're not thinning enough. If these are the small bottles that I see in the hobby shops, most of those paints are designed to be brushed on with good coverage. They would have to be thinned to spray well.

I think all of your problems come from two possible sources. One, the paint is too thick and needs thinning, or the nozzle on the air brush is opened too wide. I have always used solvent paint thinned almost to a wash, (I personally don't use acrylics, had some bad experiences with them), with the nozzle closed down to almost nothing, and always applied more than one coat for coverage. Because the paint is thinned like this, I can apply several coats and never hide any detail. Second if you're applying the yellow over the black, you need to reverse the procedure. Lighter colors cannot cover a darker cover without the coat(s) becoming so thick that most details looks coarse and "lumpy" or just hidden under the paint.

As to weathering for soot/grime runoff, I use a combination of techniques, as every situation may call from something different. An extremely thin coat of a very dark grey, as a soot looks good when sprayed from such a distance from the model as to be almost dry when it hits the model's surface. I also have used an alcohol/India Ink wash, applied very wet, as this does get into cracks and crevices, and runs down the model looking like the engine has run thru a rain storm.

Rust is mostly an item of personal choice and observation. Some engines and cars will have as little as one or two sets of wheels rusted whereas others will show no rust at all. I try to used a darker rust than many "shades" see in others work. The various "rust" colors to me seem too light to be used as is.

Other "weathering items" I've used and again it depended on the model, my wants, customer wants, my abilities etc... Chalks, powders, oils, tempra, dry brushing, weathering colors from Floquil, Scalecoat and any appropriate looking media that I felt would work. No one item works best in every situation, so try them all.

 

[macjet]

I've had a lot less trouble with ModelFlex then I have with Poly S. I concede that I am still new to painting but I have had to thin the Poly S 30% (the bottle says 15-20%) and I've still had to go back and strip after a bad spray. Poly S seems to want to come out in clumps more then mist. I'm using a Paasche double action internal mix with 80 PSI. But, Poly S is easier to find so I will continue to spray it.

 

[Cjcrescent]

I've had a lot less trouble with ModelFlex then I have with Poly S. ... I'm using a Paasche double action internal mix with 80 PSI. But, Poly S is easier to find so I will continue to spray it.

I used Modelflex once and had the paint blister and peel completely off the model. Poly S experience is along similiar lines, but hasn't been as bad. Acrylics and I don't get along.

80psi!! I've never used a pressure that high. Most paint info I've seen over the years has suggested 15-35psi for a smoothe coat of any color/make up. Even some NMRA clinics I've been a part of in the past has never suggested anything higher than 40. I'm not saying you're incorrect, just that I've never heard of pressures that high used before.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Meant to add in first post, that a friend of mine, who has painted for Overland, & Challenger Imports never used a "Railroad" paint in his life. He's always used automobile lacquer bought at an auto paint shop in his small town. He takes a paint chip into the shop and they match the colors on the computer, and he buys his colors a quart at a time. He said when you may have up to a 100 locos to paint same colors, "railroad" paints are too expensive.

 

[Red Oak & Western]

Carey makes two excellent points. My first thought was your paint isn't thin enough. I'm also concerned with your comment: "using very short strokes with a good distance away". You should be using long strokes. Start the brush about 3" before the shell, make the pass across the shell, and continue another 3" past before stopping the paint flow. I shoot my paint from 8 to 9 inches. I don't know if you'd consider that close or far away. Unless you're going for a special effect, the paint should arrive on the model "moist". Too close, the paint arrives "wet" and has a tendency to run, and can end up too thick. Too far away, the paint arrives "dry", can have adhesion problems, give an 'orange peel' effect, be spotty, etc.

ALL quality model paints are good train paints. That includes Accu-paint, Floquil, Humbrol, Model Flex, Polly Scale (Polly S), Scalecoat, Tamiya, and Testors (especially the Model Master series). We all have our favorites. As I've said before, my favorite is Scalecoat II (a solvent based paint), but I also use Tamiya, Polly S, and artist's acrylics.

Weathering is a whole thread in and of itself, but for general "dirtying down", I use a light dusting of the thinner used to clean the airbrush after painting with earth tones and dark colors. From there it's on to 101 Weathering Techniques.

 

[jbaakko]

I've learned allot in the past 6 months of painting a few small items.

My biggest hints:

1. I love solvent based paints, as I feel they thin out better for air brushes, and coat better then water based, until we start discussing using Testors paints, when it comes to the Testors 1/4oz bottles, I prefer water based. I guess it depends on the brand's mixture.

2. Solvent based, 50/50 with air brush thinner works wonders, you'll be surprised. A recent BNSF painting run I did (pictures next week) only took me two passes for a well coated BNSF orange, though a threw on a 3rd just for good measure. This was Floquil BNSF orange, thinned approximately 50/50 with Kustom Kolor airbrush thinner (HoK KK paints from Wal*mart, got them on sale for $.10 a bottle). Any airbrush thinner should work.

3. Use a spray booth!

4. Buy some dust masks to wear!

5. Never rush anything.

 

[jbaakko]

By the way, I feel that, if you're good (not even an expert needed), you can brush paint a model and not show brush marks. Testors water based paints are good for this, as long as you only paint one spot once per pass (I.E. never go back "to touch up" until that coat is dry). I'll show ya'll this week with the BNSF unit I painted what I mean.

 

[UP2CSX]

Mac, you've obviously been doing good work but I share Carey's concern about 80 PSI. I also have a Paashe and normally run mine at about 20 PSI. I find this gives an even coat for most darker colors and jack it up to about 35 PSI for lighter colors. You might try a lower pressure. If nothing else, it's easier on the airbrush parts.

I must admit I'm more of a solvent-based painter than a water based painter. I like Polly S for some of their colors like CSX Blue and Engine Black but find that standard Floquil still works better for UP Armour Yellow and the light Harbor Mist Gray. As Carey wrote, automobile lacquer properly thinned works even better but getting a good match is a challenge. If you are using solvents and lacquers, please head Josh's warning about using a spray booth, having good ventilation, and waring a dust mask. An industrial respirator is even better if you really do a lot of painting. The solvents in these paints are a direct route to leukemia with prolonged exposure. We've already lost a few famous model railroaders from the early days of the hobby because they didn't take the right precautons.

 

[macjet]

I too read the information about 20 PSI. I did try this and it wouldn't atomize the paint enough. I then went up in 10 PSI increments and found 80 to be the best. It will shoot find down to around 60 but under that and it starts to come out in clumps.

 

[jbaakko]

I too read the information about 20 PSI. I did try this and it wouldn't atomize the paint enough. I then went up in 10 PSI increments and found 80 to be the best. It will shoot find down to around 60 but under that and it starts to come out in clumps.

Sounds like you need more thinner...

 

[NYSW F45]

I should've put this in my post. The paint i've used am using isn't for an airbrush, its the spray paint cans. I dont have an airbrush and dont think its possible to thin out pre packaged paint the can.

 

[wheeler1963]

NTSW F45,

Your not going to find a paint in a spray can that won't hide your details. It just comes out too think and heavy. You might want to consider getting a hobby air brush. Then your paint jobs will be more of a controlled spray.

 

[NYSW F45]

Thanks wheeler. I might just look for a beginner type airbrush then. Any recomendations? less expensive = better for me on the wallet.

 

[jbaakko]

NTSW F45,

Your not going to find a paint in a spray can that won't hide your details. It just comes out too think and heavy. You might want to consider getting a hobby air brush. Then your paint jobs will be more of a controlled spray.

Actually you can.

I use spray cans allot too. You NEED to do thin coats, hold the can a good 18" away, and DO NOT RUSH. Do not expect to cover the whole model in 3 or less coats. You'll get very good results if you do not over do the painting in a pass. Too much paint equals loss of details, running paint, and a mess.

Spray painting, and air brushing follow the same principals, multiple thin coats, evenly sprayed on, and not holding the can/brush too close.

 

[wheeler1963]

NTSW F45,

Check with your local hobby shop first to see what they have available. Ask them a lot of questions as far as operation, cleaning, supplies available, etc. Then once you get an idea of what your after, check ebay. Badger, Paasche, Testors, etc. There are many manufacturers out there.

 

[NYSW F45]

would any of you guys recommend one of those starter sets that uses a can of compressed air? At a local shop they had a testors set that uses compressed air, airbrush, and some paint in it for like $60.

 

[UP2CSX]

That's way too high a price for a Testor's set. I know that WalMart has them for about $25.00. I'd recommend a Badger starter set like the one at http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bad/bad250-3.htm. It's only $25.89 and much better quality than the Testor's set. You can always move up to a better brush and compressor if you really get into painting without losing anything with this kit.

 

[NYSW F45]

that badger kit looks alot better then the testors kit. And you dont get stuck with the testors paint either. I'll have to check out walmart, i've also heard they carry some train stuff in the toy deparment is that true?

 

[jbaakko]

During Christmas, they sometimes have trains, they also have 1:87 vehicles. As for airbrushes, good luck. I have not seen one in a store in years, only the crappy bottle topper junk sprayer.