Necrosaro420
Member
Couldnt find alot of good info on google so im gonna ask here. After I lay my roadbed, should I ballast it before, or after I lay the track down?
Balasting track - before or after the track is layed?
- Thread starter Necrosaro420
- Start date
ModelRailroadForums.com is a free Model Railroad Discussion Forum and photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Online since 2002, it's one of the oldest and largest model railroad forums on the web. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.
Thanks Jon,
You raised some excellent points which I didn't even begin to consider!
Just now passed a magnet over the track and not much came up, but certainly enough filings to bugger an engine for sure. I'll give it a try spraying some glue just to see what happens... probably just make hard mud! It'll be fun to see what happens.
Greg
Speakers are also magnets. If you have sound engines with the speakers in the fuel tank (like BLI or Kato) then you will also pick up those magnetic bits which will also interfere with the operation of the speaker.
Related to this thread - I wonder if the OP meant to ask whether to ballast before the actual rail is layed? I know a lot of people that when they handlay track they put the ties down, do the ballasting and then lay rail. Only problem with that is making sure the tops of the ties where the rail is to go is clear.
In the US, MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) is NOT water resistant. I do not know if the same is true where you are. And as long as you are aware of the limitations it will probably work but could be noisy.
Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)
tooter
play every day
I agree... after you lay the track. Never having done it before I'm just beginning to experiment with ballasting...
I finely screened some dirt from the back yard, and just for practice took a piece of track, applied some left over reddish brown wood stain to the outside rails to look rusty, siliconed the track onto a scrap of wood and applied the dirt ballast...
What do you think?
I finely screened some dirt from the back yard, and just for practice took a piece of track, applied some left over reddish brown wood stain to the outside rails to look rusty, siliconed the track onto a scrap of wood and applied the dirt ballast...
What do you think?
Last edited by a moderator:
Selector
Well-Known Member
My readings in the forums I frequent for the past five years, where this question arises about three or four times each year, suggests to me that the hobby is almost perfectly split between the two options.
If you ask me, I do it last because I like the ballast to look like it was added after the Big Guy built the terrain. However, ballast on seldom-used track would have multiple incursions of vegetation, so if you do the ballast last, you would have to go back in some places and add some tufts or sage, or whatever plant would try to encroach onto the ballast shoulders.
A well-used main track will have its ballast nicely groomed and generally in good condition, and the vegetation would be strictly held back from the ballast and the edge of the roadbed by several feet. They would use herbicides in some places where water table contamination or stream and fishery contamination is not a problem, or they would use mechanical strippers, even steam.
-Crandell
If you ask me, I do it last because I like the ballast to look like it was added after the Big Guy built the terrain. However, ballast on seldom-used track would have multiple incursions of vegetation, so if you do the ballast last, you would have to go back in some places and add some tufts or sage, or whatever plant would try to encroach onto the ballast shoulders.
A well-used main track will have its ballast nicely groomed and generally in good condition, and the vegetation would be strictly held back from the ballast and the edge of the roadbed by several feet. They would use herbicides in some places where water table contamination or stream and fishery contamination is not a problem, or they would use mechanical strippers, even steam.
-Crandell
It looks pretty good for a test run. Couple thoughts - will you be using roadbed? and how will water and glue affect the dirt? I'm wondering if the dirt will dissolve. Be sure to run a rather strong magnet through the "ballast" before getting a loco near it. Little bits of iron and motor magnets don't play well together.
tooter
play every day
Thanks Jon,
You raised some excellent points which I didn't even begin to consider!
Just now passed a magnet over the track and not much came up, but certainly enough filings to bugger an engine for sure. I'll give it a try spraying some glue just to see what happens... probably just make hard mud! It'll be fun to see what happens.
Greg
hamltnblue
Active Member
There are a couple of questions people get mixed up with.
1. do you ballast before or after laying track.
2. do you ballast before or after scenery.
You always ballast after laying track. Otherwise the track will be un-even.
As far as scenery it's your call but I personally ballast before scenery unless it's a repair job.
1. do you ballast before or after laying track.
2. do you ballast before or after scenery.
You always ballast after laying track. Otherwise the track will be un-even.
As far as scenery it's your call but I personally ballast before scenery unless it's a repair job.
diburning
AlcoHaulic
Thanks Jon,
You raised some excellent points which I didn't even begin to consider!
Just now passed a magnet over the track and not much came up, but certainly enough filings to bugger an engine for sure. I'll give it a try spraying some glue just to see what happens... probably just make hard mud! It'll be fun to see what happens.
Greg
Speakers are also magnets. If you have sound engines with the speakers in the fuel tank (like BLI or Kato) then you will also pick up those magnetic bits which will also interfere with the operation of the speaker.
hamltnblue
Active Member
There are 3 sizes of WS ballast. I started with the large which is a bit big for HO. Medium seems to be the correct size.
Depends on the size used. WS makes different sizes. I use the medium on my HO layouts but others tend to use the fine grind.If anyone is using the Woodland Scenics ballast, let me know your opinion...
I think that the ballast is too large for HO, but it might just be me
Related to this thread - I wonder if the OP meant to ask whether to ballast before the actual rail is layed? I know a lot of people that when they handlay track they put the ties down, do the ballasting and then lay rail. Only problem with that is making sure the tops of the ties where the rail is to go is clear.
rgmccau
Member
My 11 step method (for HO - using commercial "pre-fabricated" track)
1 - Lay track bed (I'm using cork, but experimenting with 3mm MDF)
2 - Paint everything a variety of "natural" colours to seal everthing and provide an undercoat/base colour if the scenery rubs off
- green for grassy areas,
- brown for dirt,
- black/grey for trackbed and "industrial" areas
I generally use old (interior) house paint but you may need to rough up the surface if it gets too glossy and smooth.
3 - Lay track, wire it, etc, etc - get it working!
4 - Paint the track - I use Tamiya Flat Earth (or what ever you want for rusty/dirty) over pretty well everything, but I don't want a 100% "even" cover, but varied heavy to light at random/as required. Airbrush is quicker, but you can do it by hand. I don't worry about overspray.
Do steps 5 to 9 in small easy-to-manage areas, not the whole layout all at once.
5 - Spread overall scenery colour (brown/green) and general "large" areas
6 - Ballast track with "overall" ballast - different colours/textures for different track as required. I've used various commercial ballasts (including Woodland Scenics and also some Australian products sourced from actual railway quarries), but I'm experiementing with sifted river sand pre-coloured with children's acrylic paint - seems to look pretty good, and cheap!
7 - Add "special effects"
- transitions between ballast
- cement/mineral/coal/spillage/etc
- scenery greenery/growing/grass/brush (general green colouring, not necessarily 3D grass/bushes) - especially between/on/around the right-of-way
8 - CHECK EVERYTHING IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE, LOOKS GOOD, AND ALL SWITCHES/etc CAN MOVE FREELY - WHILE YOU CAN STILL MAKE CHANGES/CORRECT MISTAKES!!!
Do step 8 again....
9 - Glue everything down (wet down with a water misty spray, then 50-50 water & PVA glue + drop of detergent), starting at the highest item and working down - remember the "excess" glue will run to the lowest point, so you don't want the "perfect green lawn" to be flooded with track ballast because you slipped and spilt too much glue... and be careful around moving parts.
10 - After the glue is dry, add 3D Greenery (which may need patching of the existing scenery - around the base of a tree for example).
11 - Clean the track (rub the paint off the running surface), check all moving parts can, and all track gets power. Run your layout!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My rationale is for all this is as follows: "In the Real World:
- Underlying Ground occurs first;
- The basic "ground effect" comes next;
- Then the Railway company laid and ballasted the track;
- Then 3D things grew over/through.
So if we copy that, it should look right".
Hope this helps, and apologies for the long post.
Ross McConchie
Canberra, Australia
1 - Lay track bed (I'm using cork, but experimenting with 3mm MDF)
2 - Paint everything a variety of "natural" colours to seal everthing and provide an undercoat/base colour if the scenery rubs off
- green for grassy areas,
- brown for dirt,
- black/grey for trackbed and "industrial" areas
I generally use old (interior) house paint but you may need to rough up the surface if it gets too glossy and smooth.
3 - Lay track, wire it, etc, etc - get it working!
4 - Paint the track - I use Tamiya Flat Earth (or what ever you want for rusty/dirty) over pretty well everything, but I don't want a 100% "even" cover, but varied heavy to light at random/as required. Airbrush is quicker, but you can do it by hand. I don't worry about overspray.
Do steps 5 to 9 in small easy-to-manage areas, not the whole layout all at once.
5 - Spread overall scenery colour (brown/green) and general "large" areas
6 - Ballast track with "overall" ballast - different colours/textures for different track as required. I've used various commercial ballasts (including Woodland Scenics and also some Australian products sourced from actual railway quarries), but I'm experiementing with sifted river sand pre-coloured with children's acrylic paint - seems to look pretty good, and cheap!
7 - Add "special effects"
- transitions between ballast
- cement/mineral/coal/spillage/etc
- scenery greenery/growing/grass/brush (general green colouring, not necessarily 3D grass/bushes) - especially between/on/around the right-of-way
8 - CHECK EVERYTHING IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE, LOOKS GOOD, AND ALL SWITCHES/etc CAN MOVE FREELY - WHILE YOU CAN STILL MAKE CHANGES/CORRECT MISTAKES!!!
Do step 8 again....
9 - Glue everything down (wet down with a water misty spray, then 50-50 water & PVA glue + drop of detergent), starting at the highest item and working down - remember the "excess" glue will run to the lowest point, so you don't want the "perfect green lawn" to be flooded with track ballast because you slipped and spilt too much glue... and be careful around moving parts.
10 - After the glue is dry, add 3D Greenery (which may need patching of the existing scenery - around the base of a tree for example).
11 - Clean the track (rub the paint off the running surface), check all moving parts can, and all track gets power. Run your layout!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My rationale is for all this is as follows: "In the Real World:
- Underlying Ground occurs first;
- The basic "ground effect" comes next;
- Then the Railway company laid and ballasted the track;
- Then 3D things grew over/through.
So if we copy that, it should look right".
Hope this helps, and apologies for the long post.
Ross McConchie
Canberra, Australia
rgmccau
Member
Putting my money where my mouth is, some photos of my layout currently being sceniced/ballasted.
1 - Comparison of main line and sidings
2 - Main line
3 - Comparison with real ballast I collected over the weekend. Main line had just been tamped down, siding has been there for years.
Ross McConchie
Canberra, Australia
1 - Comparison of main line and sidings
2 - Main line
3 - Comparison with real ballast I collected over the weekend. Main line had just been tamped down, siding has been there for years.
Ross McConchie
Canberra, Australia
IowaFarmBoy
Member
In the US, MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) is NOT water resistant. I do not know if the same is true where you are. And as long as you are aware of the limitations it will probably work but could be noisy.
rgmccau
Member
Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)