Athearn's Latest Price Increases: Im out...

[Pete V]

I think there's a curious contradiction going on out there. John Allen is worshiped for what he did and I am a great fan. It contradicts the large portion of the modeling community that wants absolute realism down to the last rivet. What John did was breath taking but you would never find it on a prototype anywhere Five bridges all on top of each other? Not in my experience. What was important was the thoroughness of that fantasy world. In John's world you got to suspend disbelief and just gawk.

In our current world, John would not cut it. He would not be faithful to the prototype for too many critics. I think that those prototype demands drive a tremendous amount of the pricing that is out there. most people are simply not going to build from scratch at any level. RTR is where the action is and it is driven by crazier and crazier levels of realism. That realism comes at a cost. The guy with the $4.95 cent Lil Hustler with the rubber bands got thrown under the bus a long time ago and Plasticville is, well, plasticville. I agree that the manufacturers follow the money. Clearly the field is telling them there is plenty more money to spend. The people who have spent the most usually are getting the attention.

I'm not looking for that. I am not driven by getting a magazine article. I'm not good enough and never will be. I have college tuitions, mortages, etc which will always be in front of trains. if they can help me just decompress from the daily pressures of this economy, that will be enough. Keeping it fun is hard work.

 

[CbarM]

"RTR is where the action is"....HAHAHAHA!!!! You are too funny. More proof that there is a very fine line between MODEL railroaders, and RTR railroaders, of which alot of folks here are the 2nd by how they think RTR is better for MODEL railroading...how can that be??? What are you modelling???

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

More proof that there is a very fine line between MODEL railroaders, and RTR railroaders, of which alot of folks here are the 2nd by how they think RTR is better for MODEL railroading...how can that be??? What are you modelling???

I often wonder the same thing. How can you be modeling when you buy the item already assembled and detailed? So you throw a little weathering on it. So what. I don't scratchbuild anywhere near how much I used to but I still kitbash and put locos and rolling stock together from bits and pieces and if needed make the pieces I need for them either from scratch or from other parts. I got about half of my locos and quite a bit of rolling stock in this way.

 

[ianacole]

"RTR is where the action is"....HAHAHAHA!!!! You are too funny. More proof that there is a very fine line between MODEL railroaders, and RTR railroaders, of which alot of folks here are the 2nd by how they think RTR is better for MODEL railroading...how can that be??? What are you modelling???

Just because I choose to run RTR cars does not exclude me from being a MODEL railroader. There are many aspects of railroading to model - just because I just not to model ALL of them doesn't exclude me from being a MODEL railroader.

 

[NP2626]

Atlas Trainman series Rolling Stock are 18$ at most. That could help you save money too.

Sorry to do this to you, but you obviously haven't done your research.

First of all, why would I do research on items I have no interest in? Secondly, I certainly don't recall stating that ALL RTR rolling stock is expensive! Thirdly, Who hasn't done the research? What about the fact that YOU left out Bachman, Walther's Trainline, Model Power and probably a few other suppliers of RTR rolling stock at what most of you affection-ados of RTR would consider "reasonable prices"?

I don't care that some RTR stuff may be only a few dollars more than kits!!! I want the joy and pride of building the models that I have on my railroad!

Get this, I have paid $35.00-$40.00 for a kit! It was an American Model Builders N.P. Caboose! A little gem of a car that is difficult to distinguish from a $250.00-$350.00 brass W&R N.P. Caboose. The many hours worth of enjoyment I had building this kit made it well worth the cost!

Davidellias, I'm not interested in turning this into a full blown argument with you! I don't have problems with your interest in purchasing reasonably priced RTR stuff. I don't have problems with people buying expensive RTR, excepting, as I have stated previously, the purchase of the expensive RTR is leading the manufacturers to believe this is what we all want and this IS to the detriment of their producing kits, anymore! It is to the detriment of the hobby! How are young people supposed to become interested in Model Railroading when it has gotten so expensive?

 

[malibu43]

...

How are young people supposed to become interested in Model Railroading when it has gotten so expensive?

This.

Regardless of everything else that’s being discussed here, this is a good point. I would have never gotten involved in this hobby if it was this expensive when I was a kid. When I was 10 years old, regardless of what kind of quality I wanted, I bought BB kits because that’s what I could afford with the allowance my parents gave me. If I had to pay $40 - $50 for a box car and $80 for a locomotive, it just simply never would have happened.

 

[Espeefan]

"RTR is where the action is"....HAHAHAHA!!!! You are too funny. More proof that there is a very fine line between MODEL railroaders, and RTR railroaders, of which alot of folks here are the 2nd by how they think RTR is better for MODEL railroading...how can that be??? What are you modelling???

Well RTR is where the sales are, so it seems, or all those manufacturers would be selling kits instead of phasing them out. I still build kits, and I buy some RTR. If you build a layout but buy RTR rolling stock I don't see how that makes you less of a model railroader. You're just putting your building time where you choose.

 

[Espeefan]

This.

Regardless of everything else that’s being discussed here, this is a good point. I would have never gotten involved in this hobby if it was this expensive when I was a kid. When I was 10 years old, regardless of what kind of quality I wanted, I bought BB kits because that’s what I could afford with the allowance my parents gave me. If I had to pay $40 - $50 for a box car and $80 for a locomotive, it just simply never would have happened.

There are still plenty of low cost choices out there for kids who are interested. My son managed to put by enough for a Spectrum 4-6-0 and some Accurail cars by saving his allowance. He also saved up for a bunch of video games at $40.00 t0 $50.00 a pop!

 

[Pete V]

When I said RTR is where the action is, I meant financially for the manufacturers, not the modelers. They will make what people want to buy. I have never bought a RTR car. Scratch materials are not in great demand and I can make what I want with them.

What I really fail to understand is how people continue to swallow the hook of advance orders of a product which is in short supply by design. I assume you have to pay up front so they get use of your money for nothing for a long time. I would just never do it.

Amway used to make this stuff called Basic H. It's a detergent, and a fairly expensive one at that. Amway is a kind of cult in itself but one of the other uses they claimed for the stuff was that it would lower the PH of your garden soil. The instructions said "Just pour it directly on the ground". I thought this was the most amazing marketing I have ever seen. it costs $30 bucks a gallon and then they tell you to just pour it on the ground. Is that great marketing or what ? Sometimes model railroad purchase decisions don't seem very different at all.

 

[Pete V]

"RTR is where the action is"....HAHAHAHA!!!! You are too funny. More proof that there is a very fine line between MODEL railroaders, and RTR railroaders, of which alot of folks here are the 2nd by how they think RTR is better for MODEL railroading...how can that be??? What are you modelling???

*************
I am amazed that that is what you got out of my post. Just read the second half of the sentence. "Driven by crazier and crazier levels of realism". The point of that was the demand for realism is driving prices up.

I think in paragraphs.

 

[Espeefan]

I assume you have to pay up front so they get use of your money for nothing for a long time. I would just never do it.

Nope. I have advance ordered a very few things. The BLI Daylight cars (postponed so many times that when they do come in I won't be taking them.) and the Athearn bay window caboose. I also reserved a brass steamer once from Sunset Models. Never paid a dime up front.

 

[kbkchooch]

Oh Jeepers gang!
Somebody stepped on a stinker, multiple times.

The problems not Chinese labor ,, don't blame them, we designed this crap!

Nobody ever stated that Athearn had to provide cheap kits forever. They felt an upgrade to the product line was in order, so they went for it. Obviously somebody is buying it!

Looking for kits? Accurail & Bowser stall have 'shake the box' stuff. Not that I consider them kits. Real kits IMHO require sanding, cutting, paint and decals. Look around at ebay and swap meets,,Red Ball, Gloorcraft, etc.There are still plenty to be found. Build a tri-level auto rack from a box-o-sticks, now theres a kit!

Do some intelligent shopping. There are great deals out there if you look around. And by looking around don't just check a web site or 2. You would be surprised the Mom & Pop hobby shops that beat the likes of Trainworld and M.b. Klein on a daily basis!

Remember, the market will bear what the market will bear. If there are folks willing to pay the price, they will. A few years back I was looking for a specific car in a specific road name, which was out of production. I started getting the cars right after production ceased for about 5 bucks a car. By the time I found the 50th car, the price was close to $35.00 a car. Simple laws of supply and demand. I wasn't happy about it, but I wanted to model a specific prototype. My decision. If I wanted to do it cheaper, I could model something different.

As a friend of mine is so fond of saying "its only money, you always make more!!"

 

[hamltnblue]

For those prices I'll stick with companies like Exactrail.
Hopefully though this is the begining of the end of Chinese manufacturing for some of our hobby. They flooded the market with cheap labor but now the people there want to enjoy some of the things they've been making. That takes higher wages which raises the prices of the stuff they make.

 

[Burlington Bob]

We gripe about the price of highly detailed models because it might cost $100, $200 or maybe $300. Yet, I'm willing to bet that there are members here who have spent sizable amounts of money on things that will not last nearly as long as most model RR products.

I know that I have spent quite a bit on video gaming systems that have become, or will soon be, obsolete, with little or no resale value. Same with my computers. I am posting this with a new $200 Kindle Fire (that I love!) which I have no way of knowing when will become worthless. Yet, I have 30 year old N scale rolling stock that, to me, is still fine to run on a new layout.

Others have mentioned buying old brass locos and overhauling them to use. Those models were quite expensive when new. I still have my first issue of Model Railroader (Jan. 1970) so I know exactly what Pacific Fast Mail was asking for them. You would be talking a weeks wages or more and I'm not talking at minimum wage, far from it.

We, as a country, have had close to two decades of cheap imports. I'm not extolling the virtues of that policy! But the people in those countries are now wanting a living standard on par with ours. Price increases will be a result of that until manufacturers find the next low wage country to exploit. Wait long enough and our turn will come. Not a pleasant thought!

Put into perspective, I believe we have had a good run of relatively low cost modeling, which is coming to end. I remember buying my first MRC Dual Throttle Pack. I had just graduated HS and was reluctant to give up close to 2/3's of a weeks pay for it. But I bit the bullet and it lasted until the end of my last layout. Those first locos that I bought for three or four hours pay (and were all a POS) don't even come close to what I can buy for the same hours of pay today.

I know that "bang for the buck" is subjective but, I for one, after having been almost totally absent from the hobby for two decades am blown away with the quality that is being offered for the current prices.

 

[Pete V]

If you look at the statistics in China defining the middle class there, you will find that there are about 350 million in it. That isn't to say that poverty is not huge there, but the middle class alone is as large as the total population of this country.

When all of the manufacturing went to China, it went looking for people who had nothing and would work for just a little more than nothing. That's changing as the middle class grows and wants things for their efforts. The response by American entrepreneurs is to then go look for new cheap sources of labor as the demands from the middle class escalate. That labor is being found in more and more exotic places but ultimately I think it will be exhausted. The trouble with this kind of capitalism is that eventually no one can afford to buy the products being produced and you can think of it as pissing in your own soup pot. Even now, The Asian ring of Fire is a better market for Asia than the USA is which is a lot of why our jawboneing muscle isn't taken very seriously in the far east.

I used to work with a little town in Mexico near Monterrey that made all of the christmas tree ornaments in the world. The whole town sat at benchs with little torches churning them out. Today, that town produces next to none since the Chinese undercut them. So if wages in Mexico were not low enough for American importers to abandon a group that had an average wage of about $180.00 per month, they will either raise prices when they have no where else to turn to, or just fold up shop. There is zero loyalty in the importers, or so called manufacturers at all and we keep electing people who represent their personal profit interests again and again. I buy American made whenever and whereever I can. I believe in the unions. They built our middle class.

 

[NP2626]

I also am involved in R/C airplanes. This hobby is dominated by Almost Ready to Fly (ARF)s and Ready To Fly (RTF) airplanes. They have allowed anyone, with; or, without building skills to get involved in the hobby. Is this good? Yes. However, they are so popular that people who like building airplanes have very few kits to choose from, anymore. So, the situation is the same for that hobby; however, I have only seen fairly mild price increases in this hobby in the last few years. These ARF and RTF airplanes are built in China, Viet Nam and other poorer economic countries. So, reality leaves me rather perplexed as to why RTR HO rolling stock has gotten so high priced. If this increase in price were to make the kit market become more popular, I'd say: Ye-Hah!!

The point of the original poster of this thread was that he'd had enough! He was not going to pay Athearn's prices anymore. I say good for him! You can explain away the logical reasons that Walthers, Athearn, Intermountain, etc. have increased their RTR prices and all of the reasons making perfectly good sense; but, if the market feels your prices are too high, your living in a House-of-Cards! I am encouraging people to feel this way and react! Start buying kits! Put the "Model" back in Model Railroading!

 

[bigB]

FYI, Athearn increased their MRSP another $10 today with the release of the latest SD70ACes...now $299, last month $289

 

[jayl1]

FYI, Athearn increased their MRSP another $10 today with the release of the latest SD70ACes...now $299, last month $289

Maybe they will put the extra cost into quality control. (I can dream, can't I??)

 

[diburning]

Actually, they did. The quality control on the second run is hundreds of times better than the first run.

 

[NH Mike]

FYI, Athearn increased their MRSP another $10 today with the release of the latest SD70ACes...now $299, last month $289

I got that email today too. My first thought was we all should have stocked up when they were a bargain at $289.

From a parallel world: on today's business news it was announced that Rolls Royce had their best year ever in the company's history for sales in 2011. Up 31% over 2010. With the lowest cost Rolls coming in at $280,000 it looks like there is no shortage of buyers for higher priced items. Now.... if Athearn would only put burlewood and premium matched hides trim in the cabs of the SD70AC ...............................