Athearn moving to China?

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Well all things considered, if some American was installing those grabs on RTR cars they're cost twice as much, which is 4x as much as the kits... :p:mad:
You are assuming the grabs are installed or aren't molded in. How much labor is envolved to snap a few sides together from an injection molding machine and put the couplers and trucks in a little bag.

PLain and simple: Greed! Made in China; lower manufacturing cost = increased profit margin. Has nothing to do with staying in business in the U.S.A. Now look where all the increased and often inflated profit margins in the US has taken us: Recession! Goods are simply not worth what we have been paying. Better quality than before? That does not equate to the higher prices when you consider the higher technology used to produce items at lower costs. Seems that everyone has a mind-set that everything is put together by the hands of Union workers earning $30/hr. Not so...more likely a minimum wage worker pushing a button.
 
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After being out of active model railroading for about two years, I have jumped back in finishing up some kits that I got a few years back. One kit was an 'as is' kit from a hobby shop going out a business. It was an Athearn streamlined passenger car and it was missing a truck. Well, I went looking for one and while I found it, I found that there were hardly any more Athearn BB kits out there for the passenger cars.

Now I find this thread and I find out why. Yep, I think it is greed, too.

I also know in talking to a whole bunch of old time modelers that they do not like the trend to ready to roll. While they might sell to novices, it is the 'thrill of the chase', even in building a BB model that keeps the modeler happy. Even just putting on your own wheels and couplers, as somebody else here mentioned will do that.

Then considering that you can take a BB, grab your X-Acto or Excel knife and add all sorts of Detail West or Detail Associates items to the models and you really have something nice! What's more, YOU DID IT YOURSELF! :p

Athearn, you cheap-a** bunch of &#@(!*)$@^&$#'s, bring back the Blue Box kits and make us happy modelers again! :mad:

The Doc is out now. :cool:
 
Might I just say that the first Athearn kit I ever built in 1960 was basically a hunk of wood with metal sides and ends with a wood floor. It was almost impossible to get all the sides square and the seams to look good without a lot of filing and filling. The under-body detail was a brake cylinder that you had to paint and then glue in a hole you drilled in the wood floor. The trucks came in about a dozen pieces and had to be assembled while small parts were constantly flying off into no where. The grabs, ladders, and stirrup steps were all separate and had to be attached to the car body by drilling tiny holes using a template. The box car doors could be made to open and close but that was another hour of work. If you managed to keep all the parts together, got everything square, and didn't mess up the paint job too bad drilling all the ladder and grab holes though the metal sides, you could have a pretty decent looking car with about 8 hours work. This kit was looked down upon by the old timers because it was an "easy to assemble kit" and didn't even require soldering, carving, or wood putty. Why, the hobby was going to Hell in a hand-basket! :eek:

Fast forward 10 years to the the BB era. "Shake the box" kits, as they were known. No real modeler wanted those things. Molded on detail, one piece plastic body, plastic floors, one piece trucks. Real modelers still built things out of wood and metal, like those old Athearn cars. Why, the hobby was going to Hell in hand-basket! :eek:

Fast forward to the present. The era of the BB cars is ending. No more spending even a half-hour putting a BB kit together, just get it out of the box, plop it on the tracks, and you're done. On many of the cars, there are separate stirrup steps, grabs, and ladders, the under-body detail is often as good as what we used to see in scratchbuilt cars. The paint and level of detail in these RTR cars often exceeds what the best kitbasher could do 40 years ago. Why, the hobby is going to Hell in a hand-basket! :eek:

I think you can see where this leading. Times change and those of us who have been in the hobby for a while need to change with them or get left behind in the dinosaur pen. There are plenty of great kits still out there. Branchline is just one that comes to mind and they are no shake the box kits. They will be available as long as there's a demand, which will be until about the end of the natural lifetime of we dinosaurs. By then, all models may be 3-D holograms for all I know. RTR equipment is filling a void in this hobby, attracting the model railroader who has more money than time. At least he (or she) is in the hobby and has the choice. Even 10 years ago, RTR generally meant train set junk. How far we have come. I think model railroading is a big tent and I welcome all who come in.
 


PLain and simple: Greed! Made in China; lower manufacturing cost = increased profit margin. Has nothing to do with staying in business in the U.S.A. Now look where all the increased and often inflated profit margins in the US has taken us: Recession! Goods are simply not worth what we have been paying. Better quality than before? That does not equate to the higher prices when you consider the higher technology used to produce items at lower costs. Seems that everyone has a mind-set that everything is put together by the hands of Union workers earning $30/hr. Not so...more likely a minimum wage worker pushing a button.

I would disagree and say that it has everything to do with local, state and federal taxes:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax
Plus you need to realize just how much it actually costs to do business here in the states. Enviromental laws, Labor, production costs, liability insurance, regulations and a whole slew of other issues. Toss in the credit debacle of fannie mae and freddie mac and the community reinvestment act:http://www.ffiec.gov/cra/default.htm,Plus 9/11 and the war on terror and your head will start to spin!!!

The only way out of a recession is to cut taxes, regulation and let the market play out. It isn't pretty, but that's the truth.
 
I'd say they could come here to Illinois and set up shop, but as opposed to the environmental regulations, they would have the political graft to pay, which would probably cost just as much. The one thing I do know is that since Athearn does not make guns, they would be welcome here by the politicians, but only if they pay to play. (sigh) :(

I agree, it is a big tent, but the tent should accomodate the multitude. I think they stuck their fingers in the wind, saw the success of Kadee at making ready to roll, and decided that was the way the wind was changing.

Thing is, I could get up to 6 cars for what Kadee charges and turn them into Kadee Quality for less with D.A. or D.W. parts. And again, I had the satisfaction of doing just that. Reading Railroad Modeler Magazine, Mainline Modeler, Model Railroading and a couple of the others tells me that I was definately not alone. :)

The Doc is out now. :cool:
 
Aw crud... I was wrong...

Okay, I was wrong, in part. :(

Athearn is moving production of the BB to China, and it will resume after it is set up over there. The locomotives will not be coming back in blue box, but the regular line will be.

All I ask for is undecorated locos and cars to paint my own (so I can use up a lot of decals I have).

The Doc is out now. :cool:
 
You blame a company for manufacturing products overseas and out of this country and you blame labor. Well labor is not the only problem. EPA has a lot to do with it to. I no first hand that the quality of the product is not necessarily better let us say I work first hand with product from China and the defects are worst that when we manufactured the items in country.
 
I asked Mr. Gentry at my LHS about the whole Athearn BB thing a couple of weeks ago. This is what he told me today when I was in there. He talked to his buyer at Horizon, she called back an hour later with this story. So take it for what it's worth. I personally hope it's true.

Yes Athearn did close down it's Carson City operation, it will be a warehouse. BUT, it is moving it (and offered the 30+ employees) to move to Ontario Cal. The BB line will continue to be made in Ontario Cal.

They will swap the dies and molds back and forth with China. China will make the RTR and Genesis line, Ontario will make the BB line.

Now to back this up, he pulled a brand new BB kit off of the shelf. On the box end, it says "with metal wheels and knuckle couplers". That will be standard on all new BB kits. So here's hoping that it's true!!!!
 
Thats good news that BB will still be made here. the last few BB kits I bought had metal wheels and plasic Knuckle couplers. my only complaint with BB is the coupler mounting. we all know slack in a long train likes to pull/push those pesky clips off. if they could add 2 screws to hold those on that would be great!!!

Trent
 


I like RTR, if it is something I cant find in a kit, but I would rather take the time to build a kit. It is just more fun, Mike
 
Little confused about this thread, but all the new BB kits I see at any of my LHS all say Made in China on the box. I know their are some that say Made in USA, but the majority of boxes I have saying nothing of where they were made. Just the location of athearn, like Carson or Compton.
 
If it says nothing, it's made in the USA. Anything made outside the country has to have the country of origin stamped on the product somewhere.
 
Anything made outside the country has to have the country of origin stamped on the product somewhere.

Doubt that. A 'china' sticker on a product or printed on the box is what should be. It is not needed to be sold in the US. And like I said, the BB china's I have show no country of origin casting on them, even the US Made ones have no castings.
 
This is the law:
"Under §304 of the Tariff Act of 1930 as amended (19 U.S.C. 1304), every imported item must be conspicuously and indelibly marked in English to indicate to the “ultimate purchaser” its country of origin." According to the U.S. Customs, generally defined the “ultimate purchaser” is the last U.S. person who will receive the goods in the form in which it was imported."

If Athearn is following the law and they are making things in China, the Customs Act of 1930 is pretty clear that country of origin should be stamped on the product somewhere and it must conspicuous and indelible. There is no requirement that a US product have such a stamp or marking unless the product is being made for export and the company has to comply with other country of origin laws.
 
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This is the law:
"Under §304 of the Tariff Act of 1930 as amended (19 U.S.C. 1304), every imported item must be conspicuously and indelibly marked in English to indicate to the “ultimate purchaser” its country of origin." According to the U.S. Customs, generally defined the “ultimate purchaser” is the last U.S. person who will receive the goods in the form in which it was imported."

That is a law on agriculture with added silk/other clothes. I don't see how this has to do with merchandise. The Rules of Origin from the Code of Federal Regulations is where you should look for information.

Besides do you really think everyone follows the rules?
 
I read not long ago, that China had quit marking many of their exports as "Made in China" because of all the bad PR received over the toys, dog food, etc. It read that only the bar code has the country of origin. I don't know the validity of this; only read the article. I know the stuff I've bought from Wally World recently, still have the "Made in China" printed on them. They may be merchandize exported or made prior to this.
 
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OK, this is the exact CFR section. As you can see, it says every article imported, not just textiles.

"Title 19 CFR, § 134.11 Country of origin marking required
Unless excepted by law, section 304, Tariff Act of 1930, as amended (19 U.S.C. 1304), requires that every article of foreign origin (or its container) imported into the United States shall be marked in a conspicuous place as legibly, indelibly, and permanently as the nature of the article (or container) will permit, in such manner as to indicate to an ultimate purchaser in the United States the English name of the country of origin of the article, at the time of importation into the Customs territory of the United States."

The case law on the section is that an article itself must be marked unless there is no physical place to do so or the marking would be conspicious and lower its value. In that case, the container must be marked. For example, I have a Hot Wheels garbage truck I just bought. The word "Thailand" is stamped in the bottom. A Kodak SD card I got for Christmas has "Made in China" on the container and the word "China" stamped on the back of the card.

Now, does every company do this? Of course not, no more than we all follow the speed limit. CPB does check incoming containers for County of Origin compliance. Any company that doesn't follow the law and gets caught faces some pretty hefty fines and possible prison time for the company officers. I'm sure that some companies will do all they can to play the gray area but the law is pretty clear. If Athearn is importing BB line products from China, that should be on at least the container and should be on the product since there are plenty of places to put country of origin marking on the bottom of a model train.
 




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