Appalachian Mountain Coal Mining 4x8 Build

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mydartswinger

mydartswinger

Member
Good afternoon,
Over the last couple of months, I've been going through the process of beginning an HO layout. To follow the progression I went through to decide on how I was going to build it, you can read my previous thread located at:

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18548

It's going to be set in the Appalachian Mountains in a coal mining town, modern day, and using Norfolk Southern "Horsehead" locomotives to provide service to the mine.

Primary features of the layout include 2 continuously running mainlines, a staging/yard area, 2 tunnels, and a bridge. There will end up being a lake/pond feeding a river leading to a waterfall that will feed the river that goes under the bridge.

The downfalls, which I'm willing to live with, are 15" and 18" radius curves, 4% grades, and limited expansion capabilities. I know the 15" radius curves are tight, so I will be using 4 axle diesels, such as the GP38-2 on the line with the 15" radius curves. Though the overhang won't be true to scale, I should be able to run small 6 axle locos such as the SD38 on the line with 18" radius curves. As for the grades, I was shooting for a 2% grade, but for what I wanted to do, I would have to take up my entire layout to get it there. It would have been something like an 8% grade had I not gone with split grades to provide the clearance. I know the 4% grade isn't prototypical on a coal railroad, however the small size of the layout restricts the length of train I can pull, so the locos have plenty of power to make the grade with a full load and minimal loss of speed. I will, however, have to bend up the air lines on the couplers to keep them from striking the track on the grades. I was going to add a turnout in each tunnel to allow future expansion, but the work required to provide access to the turnouts there in case of derailment would've been a bit more than I want to do at the moment. At this time, I'd rather tear it down and start over or just build from scratch than do that. This layout should provide plenty of enjoyment for several years, or at least until I can have the space for a much larger layout in the future. In that case, this one can become more of a "toy" layout or a living room/game room layout.

On to the build. This started off with a simple Bachmann Santa Fe Flyer set on 2 2'x4' tables side by side for a 4'x4'. Once I decided to go ahead and go with the 4'x8', I built the table and added the grass mat for appearances. This is shown in the pictures attached in this post.

More pictures and progress to follow in my next posts.
 
The next step of my build was laying down the track I had on hand. At the time, I was using Bachmann EZ Track. On the 4x8, I was able to go to 22" radius curves in an oval.

I then added a turnout to create a yard area. This is how I ran it while I was deciding on where to go with the layout.

Once my basic design was decided on, I made the decision to go ahead and start over with track and go with Atlas Code 100 track. This gave me a bit more room to work with the track design. This is when I put down the "M" shaped line that will be the "upper level"/"inner loop"/"mining line".

The next step I took was to add the "lower lever"/"outer loop"/"main line" of the layout and to expand the yard area. At this point in the build, it wasn't the exact layout I had planned due to not having the elevation in place, so the main line was extended and the mining line was shortened to allow both lines to run.

Foam base, risers, and inclines added in next post.
 
Keep sharing your progress, I enjoy it.

I enjoyed watching the transition from the ATSF trainset, adding pieces, and then the direction towards NS.

If only trainsets were available in a variety of roads, rather than just the most popular ones.

James
 


Once the layout was at the point where I needed elevation to continue, I went to the local home improvement store to look for insulation foam sheeting. Unfortunately, all they had was 3/4" thick sheets. In light of that, I ended up getting 6 sheets of it. 3 to provide the base layers to allow for the river to flow under the main line, and 3 above that to allow for the mainline to drop down 2" to go under the mining line. I ran the train for a while in an oval on these sheets until I got the nerve to start cutting into the foam.

Once I got the nerve to start cutting into the foam, I realized that my skill level was not where it should be to shape the foam into the desired grades. To remedy this, I made a trip to the LHS to pick up some Woodland Scenics risers and inclines. At first, I picked up 2% inclines hoping that I could make it work at 2%. Once I got home and began laying it out, that's when I realized that it wouldn't work with the layout I chose and 2% grades. I turned to the internet to find a formula to work out the grade. I can't remember where I found it, or what exactly the formula was, but it worked out to be a 4% grade (46" run and 2" rise/drop). So back to the LHS to pick up the 4% inclines. Once installed, I did a test run on the main line to determine clearance. Unfortunately, I was only sitting at about 2" of clearance, requiring me to cut half of the riser above it. However, that only gave me 2.5" of clearance (from the top of the rail to the lowest point on the overhang). This is enough to allow what I have to run, but if at some point I decide to run something different on the line, I may be pressed for clearance. To get the NMRA standard 3" clearance, I cut the riser completely off where it crosses the main line.

Once the grades were installed and test run, it was time to get the 2" risers to allow for the mining line to run. At this time, I cannot run a train on the mining line due to lack of support where it crosses the main line (due to the cutting at the crossover points). To remedy this, my next step is to cut some light plywood in to strips wide enough to support the track and long enough to go from riser to riser, with about 1/2" extra to allow the risers to support the plywood. Once that's done, I'll test run it to ensure that no further modifications are needed to the structure of the inclines, crossings, etc... Once I'm satisfied with that, I'll lay down the plaster cloth to cover the risers, inclines, and plywood, as well as shape some of the landscaping.

That's where I stand at this point. I'll post more updates as I continue working on it.
 
Thanks James,

Wow, wasn't quite expecting a reply that quick. Didn't quite get my current layout post done before you replied. Dang 4 picture limit. Nice, though.

I really like the look of the NS "Horsehead" scheme, plus I see them quite frequently here in NC. At one point, I was thinking of going with CSX due to a quick search that I had done looking for railroads that serve Appalachian coal mines. I really wanted NS, though. A while later (before I started purchasing locos and rolling stock for the layout), I did a little bit more intensive search to find out if NS serves said coal mines. Boy do they ever!!! That made me happy to find that, so I went with the railroad that I wanted to go with.

There are some sets with less popular railroads available. Atlas has an NS set.

http://www.ehobbies.com/atl0032.html

I have a feeling that this is how quite a few people get started in the hobby. Pick up a trainset from a store, realize they want more, do some research (or see a locomotive they like better), decide to go with another railroad and layout design, and it snowballs from there.

Shannon
 
Nice concept.

One thing I notice is that you don't have much in the way of transition grades. That is you seem to pretty much go from flat to grade without easing into it. Trains, even model ones, need to gradually make a change.
 
Unfortunately, with the concept of this layout, I don't have much space to get from the turnouts to the crossing points. I've got about 46" of track between the turnout and the first crossing point. Opposing 4% grades is all I could fit in the space to achieve the goal. I tried moving the turnouts as close to the center of the layout as possible. I'm using 2 turnouts per line as entry/exit lines, plus 1 turnout to enter the yard. I have the 2 turnouts on the mining line back to back, plus the yard turnout is right next to the mining line's exit turnout to the main line. These turnouts also serve as kind of a "runaround" on the main line.

At this point, I don't see how I could incorporate transition grades into the layout, and still achieve the clearance for the crossovers. Once thing that I have done a little of to try to minimize the sudden grade is to sand a bit of foam from the junctions of the inclines and the sheet foam, to make the transition from flat to grade a bit more smooth. As noted before, there's not much room to work with to make it much more gradual than it is at present.

I'm attaching a few pics to show, in detail, a few relating points.

The first pic is of the corner of the layout before the mining line risers were installed. This shows the combined grade of the 2 lines.

The second pic shows the clearance at one of the crossing points before the incline was cut to increase the clearance.

The third picture details the front straight section where the turnouts are located. It also shows where the grades begin and end.

The last picture is a track level close up of the track on the left where the grades begin and end.

If you have any suggestions to incorporate transition grades without rebuilding the entire layout, please let me know.

Thanks again,
Shannon
 
The obvious answer is to shift the whole grades about 6-9 inches and make the transition smoother. The problem is not so much looks, it is derails.

You want to fix that now rather than later.
 
I really don't have issues with derailments, except for with my SD38. The issue with that looks to be that since the track isn't pinned or glued down yet, the track's flexing very easily at the joints under the weight of a locomotive, causing the front wheels of the SD38 to jump the track. It seems to only affect the SD due to it's 6 axles. The GP38-2 and my 4-4-0 steamer have no issues with derailments.

The rolling stock does lean a good bit, but hasn't derailed due to the leaning. It has, however, derailed due to the track pulling apart because it's not pinned or glued.

I just ran my GP38 pulling 10 100-ton coal hoppers for about 20 minutes without issue.

For me to move my grades by 6-9" would require nearly a complete redesign of the layout. As it is at the moment, my grades run from turnout to crossover and vice versa on the other end. Most likely substituting the "M" shape for another oval. With the "M" shape, it's as narrow as it's gonna get. Even if I moved that in, that would only change the grade on the main line, not the mining line. In fact, it would likely increase the grade. I can, however, continue working on making the transition smoother, though not by much.

Thanks again,
Shannon
 


I'm already at 4% grades. I'm already experiencing a bit of a slow down on the inclines. Not much of a slowdown, but noticeable anyhow. I had to increase the run as far as I could just to get down to a 4% grade. An increase in grade is pretty much out of the question.

Thanks again,
Shannon
 
Nice layout!
This is what I would have done, but space became a problem. I actually started scratch building a mine loadout and set it up on the small shelf diorama. Never did get around to finishing it up.

Here are a couple of pics of it. One is of it set up and the other is it's current state.

I'll be watching this thread, for sure. :D
 
Thanks Glass,

Just got a few pictures and a video this evening to update ya'll a bit.

I've got the wood in place to go over the mainline to provide more clearance for the mainline train to go under the mining line. I've also added plaster cloth over the risers and inclines. I'll finish that up once I'm ready to add the mountains and remaining terrain. I also created the gorge where the waterfall and river will run, topping it off with an Atlas Code 83 Warren Truss Bridge that I installed code 100 rails into to match the rest of the code 100 track.

The first picture is a full view of the layout. The second is a corner shot. The third is a shot of the back of the layout, showing the bridge and gorge.

I made a short video of the trains running around the layout a couple of times. My Athearn SD38 on the mainline, and my Athearn GP38-2 on the mining line. At the end of the video, the first hopper uncouples from the GP38. I believe this issue to be due to sticky track and uneven plaster at the wood/riser joint. I'll be going back and filing the plaster down to make it more level with the risers, and I'll be cleaning the track once the roadbed is laid and the track is painted.

Though it may not be "public" yet, I'm including a link to the video. If it doesn't show right away, give it a bit of time and it'll become available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSWiP8-Xk5Y

Thanks again,
Shannon
 
I'll say it again, Shannon. That's nice! Watching those black trains snake through the white scenery reminds me of the NS in the snow. Also, the continuous running lets you determine the length of the mine run as you see fit. :cool:
 
Thanks again.

I figured out why the hopper keeps uncoupling on that last turn of the mining line. The coupler on the front of the first hopper is too low for the rear coupler of the train. I put a Kadee raised coupler on it, but it's a bit too short, and now wants to derail the hopper through the center curves due to not having enough room to turn. I'll go to the LHS this weekend to see if I can pick up a set of longer couplers, and I'll see if that fixes the issue.

While at the LHS, I'll probably look at picking up the tunnel portals, paint for the portals, and roadbed. With that, I should be able to get the layout to a point where I can fix any running issues, as well as get it ready for ballast, the mountains, then the rest of the scenery.

I'll continue to post updates here to show ya'll the progress on it.

Shannon
 
Did anyone see the little 4-4-0 steamer sitting in the yard? I've been thinking about how to possibly incorporate that little engine into my layout. How about running my NS locos in consist on the mainline, then getting about 3-4 "excursion cars" to run "tours" through the mountains on the mining line being pulled by the little 4-4-0? I've found a couple of nice looking short passenger cars, but they're not the same RR as the steamer. The steamer is a Western & Atlantic Railroad, while the cars I'm interested in either don't have a railroad (but aren't enclosed. I'd prefer enclosed to run through the mountains), or they come in either PRR or B&O (in this case, I'd lean towards the PRR due to the colors on the car).

Here's a couple that I found:
PRR 34' Old Time Overton Coach
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=RND84284

Jackson Sharp Open Sided Car
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=3023

I'm gonna continue searching a bit on my own to see if I can find some Western & Atlantic RR passenger cars suitable for 15" radius curves, but in the meantime, does anyone know of anyone that made a passenger car to fit that bill?

Thanks again,
Shannon
 
I went to the LHS yesterday and picked up the roadbed, tunnel portals, paint for the track, and ballast. When I got home, I pulled one of the portals out of the box to check it's size. Though I haven't mentioned it here, I did have a concern that they would be too wide to fit. At first, I thought that if it was too wide I could just cut it down a bit. Once I got the portals home, my concern was validated. After taking a good long look at the portals, I decided that I won't be able to cut it down without getting rid of most of the portal details. My new course of action will be to use wire hangars to form the shape of the portal, then cover with plaster cloth. Then I may go on a "scavenger hunt" for appropriate sized pebbles to go around the tunnel entrance to give it at least some visual hint of tunnel support.

In the meantime, I'll be laying the roadbed, painting the ties on the track, pinning/gluing the track to the roadbed, and laying the ballast.
 


Well, I looked at using the foam board to make portals. However, I don't have the space to make a portal strong enough to hold itself up. I'm gonna have to stick with using the wire hangar (or similar wire) and use the plaster cloth to make the portals.

In the meantime, I've been working on the mainline. I've got the roadbed laid, and the track is (almost) painted. To finish painting the track, I've just got to go back after the rust (on the rails) has dried and touch up the ties. Then go back and clean the top of the rails. For color, I'm using Rail Brown on the ties (I felt RR Tie Brown was too dark, but I may use it for the track in the yard area) and Rust for the sides of the rails and tie to rail connectors (not sure of the correct term).

After the paint dries (probably some time tomorrow), I'll add the ballast to the mainline (a mix of Woodland Scenics Coarse Light Gray and Coarse Dark Gray ballasts). I'll go back once the turf is in place to add more ballast and ensure that the ballast appears to be placed on top of the turf.

I'm attaching a few pics to show the current progress of the layout.

Thanks for following,
Shannon
 
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