Track Plan help?


L

LebryantJohnson

New Member
I have been struggling to come up with a good track plan for a decently sized layout.

Currently, I have a 4x8 with two loops. I want to create a new layout because this one doesn't have a yard, long run, or large curves. Currently have 2 big boys that navigate 18" and 22" curves just fine but I want to be able to get Walthers Mainline passenger cars for my Sante Fe El Capitan and they need 24" curves.

For my new layout: I'm looking to be able to run 2-5 trains at the same time and have big enough curves to support passenger cars from Walther mainline (min curves 24"). Would be nice to have a staging yard to store cars and locomotives as well. Industry spurs are cool and would be appreciated as well but it's not mandatory for me to have them. I also have no problems with using flex track.

I have limited knowledge of track planning so any advice or preexisting track plans would be nice.
 
This would be a good start to get you thinking. https://scarm.info/layouts/track_plans.php?tracks=Atlas

Also, Kalmbach Publishing has several guides and an annual Track Planning edition.

But the very first thing to do is to have a firm idea of what about the last layout no longer appeals to you. That, as an initial guide, should go a long way to helping you to avoid mistakes in the next one. You mention longer passenger cars and 24" curves. Unless things have changed (for the better), 24" won't cut it. You'll need closer to 28" radius with 85+ foot passenger cars, especially with diaphragms. It may work just fine, even down to about 26" trailing, but when you back and take up all the slack in the couplers, those diaphragms will not want to compress much and they'll horse your cars out of curves much less than about 26-28" when you shove, which you might have to do when you park a train at a station.

Did you get a little bored watching trains go around? C'mon...admit it. After the fourth cycle, you sighed and you realized you wanted....you NEEDED...more. Storage or staging is boring. It might be quite necessary, and so you need to plan very carefully how you'll place it, how trains will enter and exit, and how you'll get in there to fix problems...which WILL happen. Accept that you'll need to reach at least a full arm into the back to lift off a derailed passenger car.

You should have at least space and function for rudimentary classification...making up consists. That would be a yard, and it's a whole topic all by itself. For yards to work, they need parking space, but also leads, run-around diagonals/crossovers, a caboose track in the appropriate era and road, and so on. Small spaces really cramp that, but if you have 150 square feet to play with, you might be able to build a nice butt-end yard.

I don't build a layout, me being a guy who loves just to watch trains move, unless there's a rudimentary yard with engine maintenance facilities, a welding/fabricating shop, a lumber mill, and a coal mine. The latter two are always up high above the main operating surface and tracks accessed via a steep switchback. By steep, I mean at least 3.5% gradient, and often over 6% (means a tank engine at least, or a geared locomotives like a Heisler, Climax, or Shay). But I have all this, plus reasonably decent scenery, nothing spectacular, so that I can switch up and do something other than just watch the same two trains meet twice a circle of my twinned main loops. There's getting into the roundhouse via the turntable, or there's the car repair shop to deal with, or a diner set out near the station that needs to be taken and placed into the middle of a passenger consist.

Look at the track plans that you can find published here and there, but always remember your givens and druthers, as the late great John Armstrong admonished the track planner, new or experienced. There should be a few strong nice-to-haves with each successive design/improvement, but there must be an almost absolute list of givens. I'll have this new layout, given that is has a turntable, or a passenger facility, or a staging area, or DCC, or....whatever.
 
Selector said:
This would be a good start to get you thinking. https://scarm.info/layouts/track_plans.php?tracks=Atlas

Also, Kalmbach Publishing has several guides and an annual Track Planning edition.

But the very first thing to do is to have a firm idea of what about the last layout no longer appeals to you. That, as an initial guide, should go a long way to helping you to avoid mistakes in the next one. You mention longer passenger cars and 24" curves. Unless things have changed (for the better), 24" won't cut it. You'll need closer to 28" radius with 85+ foot passenger cars, especially with diaphragms. It may work just fine, even down to about 26" trailing, but when you back and take up all the slack in the couplers, those diaphragms will not want to compress much and they'll horse your cars out of curves much less than about 26-28" when you shove, which you might have to do when you park a train at a station.

Did you get a little bored watching trains go around? C'mon...admit it. After the fourth cycle, you sighed and you realized you wanted....you NEEDED...more. Storage or staging is boring. It might be quite necessary, and so you need to plan very carefully how you'll place it, how trains will enter and exit, and how you'll get in there to fix problems...which WILL happen. Accept that you'll need to reach at least a full arm into the back to lift off a derailed passenger car.

You should have at least space and function for rudimentary classification...making up consists. That would be a yard, and it's a whole topic all by itself. For yards to work, they need parking space, but also leads, run-around diagonals/crossovers, a caboose track in the appropriate era and road, and so on. Small spaces really cramp that, but if you have 150 square feet to play with, you might be able to build a nice butt-end yard.

I don't build a layout, me being a guy who loves just to watch trains move, unless there's a rudimentary yard with engine maintenance facilities, a welding/fabricating shop, a lumber mill, and a coal mine. The latter two are always up high above the main operating surface and tracks accessed via a steep switchback. By steep, I mean at least 3.5% gradient, and often over 6% (means a tank engine at least, or a geared locomotives like a Heisler, Climax, or Shay). But I have all this, plus reasonably decent scenery, nothing spectacular, so that I can switch up and do something other than just watch the same two trains meet twice a circle of my twinned main loops. There's getting into the roundhouse via the turntable, or there's the car repair shop to deal with, or a diner set out near the station that needs to be taken and placed into the middle of a passenger consist.

Look at the track plans that you can find published here and there, but always remember your givens and druthers, as the late great John Armstrong admonished the track planner, new or experienced. There should be a few strong nice-to-haves with each successive design/improvement, but there must be an almost absolute list of givens. I'll have this new layout, given that is has a turntable, or a passenger facility, or a staging area, or DCC, or....whatever.
Click to expand...
Bought a pdf with 103 track plans from model railroaded and this one intrigues me:
1640419891576.png
I am capable of using any rail but I have no idea how to take that into there. How am I to know what the measures are of the table etc. How am I supposed to know which radius was used where?
 
I like to have a train or two just running around the layout while I am switching or running other trains for tasks. My big regret is having only 1 main line. When using work trains coming of a spur onto that main line, it requires some careful planning to prevent a collision.
 
The radii aren't snap track radii so they may not be set, many might be curved to fit. The minimum is 26".

It's a scale drawing so you can get approximate dimensions from scaling off the drawing.

The turntable as drawn won't handle a big boy it looks more like a 90 ft turntable. It also has 3 double slips. Most of the main line will be on a grade. Another caution is what vertical separation there will be particularly over the staging yard.
 
I Also encourage you to check out layoutvision and Custom Model Railroads online for great info and review as well. Many members have helped me here big Time and I am extremely grateful. It is still difficult though as you mentioned to make a decision.
 
Merry Christmas!

Keep in mind that those artist renditions are usually not to scale and could have artist license built it. Now if the plan had a ft^2 or something grid, that may help you alot to move that drawing into a Cad program. Wing it and see what fits for you.

Givens and Druthers - I started with specific stuff for both of these. As I progressed in the design stage - guess what? Stuff had to change - both cases. These are NOT caste in stone and can be tweaked when needed. You might think of them as targets that move. Sure room size is pretty much a given - unless you are capable of a room addition and have the space. Train length pretty much determines your sidings, yard lead and A/D tracks of which mine changed multiple times. You don't necessarily need yard ladder tracks as long as sidings and you do not need many. Double track main lines take up more space than single so you have to watch your curves and how they fit. A Big Boy is 132ft - so 135ft turntable? If you want a roundhouse double your BigBoy length and add a few inches for between the TT and RH depending on TT track angle. You now have a big footprint for both. Placement is key, return blobs come to mind for it all to fit. YMMV.

Cad programs - I have used 3rd Plan It, Cadrail and XtrackCad. I have seemed to settle on the later and have used it for a few years now. Don't know about AnyRail or any of the others.
 
LebryantJohnson said:
Bought a pdf with 103 track plans from model railroaded and this one intrigues me:
View attachment 137597I am capable of using any rail but I have no idea how to take that into there. How am I to know what the measures are of the table etc. How am I supposed to know which radius was used where?
Click to expand...
You need one of those long graph paper pads and a compass with pencil, and a straightedge. From there, mark out the curves in some kind of scale that you choose (I like one foot to be two squares on the graph paper). If one square is six inches, you open the compass until you get the 26" minimum (and if you're using flex it will be an eased curve anyway, so better). Then, place your arcs, by drawing them, where the diagramme indicates your curves should be. Between the curves are just tangents, easily drawn with the straightedge.

Believe it or not, I do draw it all out by hand, and when I have the plan, I use 1" masking tape and 'draw' it all on the floor of the train room. This isn't done in 30 minutes. It will take you at least a full hour, pulling on the tap and laying it in correct radius, laying out the correct and true angles of turnout frogs, including the lengths of whatever brand of turnout you intend to use. Once you have your track plan, and can stand up and enjoy looking at the concept as depicted by the tape, you will know approximately where the edges of the benchwork should be. You'll quickly see how wide any aisles will be. If it looks good, and you find yourself getting excited, take measurements of the tape depicting the benchwork and go purchase 1X4 and 1X2 to build it.
 
Note, the attractive layout # 68 is a 'duck under', archaic by today's standards...
If you can, consider making a narrow (1'- 1.5' deep) shelf layout along the walls..
You then can walk along following your train(s)...and perform all the duties the RR requires...This will also afford wide curves where you want and sharper curves to/from industry spurs....You can design it as 'point to point' with a wye, turntable, or balloon track at one or both ends causing proto activities in order to turn trains, same as the 1:1 scale.. IE. You doesn't need a continual loop of main line track in order to enjoy a model railroad..
 
LebryantJohnson said:
I want to be able to get Walthers Mainline passenger cars for my Sante Fe El Capitan and they need 24" curves.
Click to expand...
It says minimum of 24" but they have to be running perfectly to fit that small. I would say go up at least to 26".

You didn't say how much space you have for this new layout.

Which El Capitan are you modeling? 1938, 1955, or 1960s? How many cars in the consist? Do you want to see it all stretched out? I run 1955 with 11 cars. With F units on the point that is 13 feet of train.
 
Iron Horseman said:
It says minimum of 24" but they have to be running perfectly to fit that small. I would say go up at least to 26".

You didn't say how much space you have for this new layout.

Which El Capitan are you modeling? 1938, 1955, or 1960s? How many cars in the consist? Do you want to see it all stretched out? I run 1955 with 11 cars. With F units on the point that is 13 feet of train.
Click to expand...
I have one BLI E1 and if need be I have an F unit from Athearn. I'm thinking of doing a combined consist of the super chief and El Capitan with some intermountain Hi cars and then the Walthers super chief cars. As far as era I don't care I like freelancing, whatever cars I can find on ebay. This is just because it's the cheapest option for me. As far as the length I can really only justify buying 7-10 cars.

size of the layout: smallest layout that allows me to run a freight train or two and a passenger train at the same time which meets the curve requirements. Space is not as much a factor as time and money. I have a stable that I am going to turn into a train room so space isn't really a problem.
 
About *gulp* 40 years ago Model Railroader ran an article called Pike Size Passenger Trains. Its target audience was modelers that did not have enough layout or broad curves to truly do a cross country named train justice. The article had 5-6 different passenger consists for a variety of prototypes and even detailed which available models would match or an easy kitbash. I was modeling the Southern at the time and built the consist listed, FP7 and two cars, these cars were feeders to the Crescent Limited. Worked out wonderfully. A follow up article a year or so after the original also had small passenger trains to model. My memory is fading with age but there may be a Santa Fe feeder consist in those articles.
 
boatwrench said:
About *gulp* 40 years ago Model Railroader ran an article called Pike Size Passenger Trains. Its target audience was modelers that did not have enough layout or broad curves to truly do a cross country named train justice. The article had 5-6 different passenger consists for a variety of prototypes and even detailed which available models would match or an easy kitbash. I was modeling the Southern at the time and built the consist listed, FP7 and two cars, these cars were feeders to the Crescent Limited. Worked out wonderfully. A follow up article a year or so after the original also had small passenger trains to model. My memory is fading with age but there may be a Santa Fe feeder consist in those articles.
Click to expand...
Was it really 40 years ago? Hmmm, Lets see checking the index, Pike Size were in November 1980, January 1981, October 1989 specifically, but then again in May 2003, March 2006 and June 2007. I remember reading them all with great interest. Seems like yesterday.

Anyway the Santa Fe consist in the first article was the late 1960 to Amtrak, Grand Canyon. Basically a set of PAs with a baggage and 2 or three coaches. Another Santa Fe featured in the May 2003 was trains #93 and #94 the West Texas Express. I am surprised they did not feature the Chief Connection from Denver to La Junta. Which by the way Walther's just did as a "named train".

The shortest combine El Cap/Super Chief train I think Lebryant is looking for would be something like below. Any shorter and it would loose the "feel" of the train.
baggage dorm transition
68 seat El Capitan step up Coach
Hi Level Diner
Hi Level Lounge
68 seat El Capitan step down Coach
sleeper car
Super Chief pleasure dome
Super Chief Diner
Sleeper car


Just FYI, and in contrast, a full 1969 consist of the combined El Capitan / Super Chief would be something like below. I remember them blasting through Lamar Colorado eastbound at 10:00 pm right around the 90 mph mark. Lamar was the first town past La Junta which marked the beginning of the "race track" across Kansas where trains could make up lost time. Another side note is that the only fatality on the Super Chief was just across the boarder near Lakin or Deerfield KS where a farmer's tractor drug an implement across the tracks and misaligned them. Super Chief came through between 104 and 107 mph and derailed. Sad.

3 brand new FP45s (purchased new to replace the aging f units)
steam generator
baggage mail
baggage dorm transition
68 seat El Capitan step up Coach
72 seat high level coach
72 seat high level coach
high level diner
high level lounge
72 seat high level coach
72 seat high level coach
72 seat high level coach
68 seat step down coach
10-6 Sleeper (Budd Pine series)
11-Double-Bedroom Sleeper (PS Indian series)
4-4-2 Sleeper (ACF Regal series)
Dome Lounge (PS Pleasure Dome; runs with dome to rear)
36-Seat Diner (kitchen to the front - this was so the kitchen could directly serve the Turquoise room under the dome)
11-Double-Bedroom Sleeper
11-Double-Bedroom Sleeper or 4-4-2 Sleeper
10-6 Sleeper (Kansas City - Los Angeles)
 
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LebryantJohnson said:
size of the layout: smallest layout that allows me to run a freight train or two and a passenger train at the same time which meets the curve requirements. Space is not as much a factor as time and money. I have a stable that I am going to turn into a train room so space isn't really a problem.
Click to expand...

So the plan #68 form 103 track plans might just be a winner. Could easily run three trains simultaneously. The only thing it doesn't have is a reversing loop so one will have to back-out of the yard for a train to run clockwise.
 
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