Hello!! I am working on my first N scale layout and I am interested in superelevating the curves on the layout. To do so, it has been suggested that I need cardstock on the following thicknesses - 0.030", 0.050", 0.075", and 0.090". I have tried numerous locations, but have had little luck acquiring cardstock in those thicknesses. Can you offer any suggestions as to where I might be able to acquire such products?? Thanks,
Superelevation
- Thread starter Kiarev53
- Start date
I use business cards. A single card can have strips trimmed off it and used on the outside edge of curves track to super elevate it.
Topherisme
Chris wants more hobby time!!!
Topherisme
Chris wants more hobby time!!!
Post some pics, love to see others work 
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
I tilted my whole roadbed to achieve the superelevation.
In N scale, one inch is .006 inches. The most superelevation you will find, on 120-150 mph track, is about 6". The most superelevation you should have on an N scale layout is 0.0375 in.
I you have 0.090 superelevation, you have the equivalent of 14 inches of superelevation. That's fine if your trains are going 300 mph. Above 6" of superelevation on a real railroad, if a typical freight train stops, the cars might tip over from the tilt.
I would also suggest the masking tape method, get 3/8 or 1/4 in tape (or make a cut down the middle of a 1/2" roll of tape.) The tape can go under the track or under the roadbed. Up to 3 or 4 layers of tape max should do it.
I you have 0.090 superelevation, you have the equivalent of 14 inches of superelevation. That's fine if your trains are going 300 mph. Above 6" of superelevation on a real railroad, if a typical freight train stops, the cars might tip over from the tilt.
I would also suggest the masking tape method, get 3/8 or 1/4 in tape (or make a cut down the middle of a 1/2" roll of tape.) The tape can go under the track or under the roadbed. Up to 3 or 4 layers of tape max should do it.
Snowman
Well-Known Member
Can't fool me. You tilted your whole house....
D&J RailRoad
Professor of HO
Still looks good though.Can't fool me. You tilted your whole house....
MilwRoader_Steve
Well-Known Member
On my HO layout, i used strips of styrene bought from LHS in three thicknesses: 0.010"; 0.020"; 0.030" - - - I painted them flat black and then cut with scissors to lengths. So far, working well.
Added value: I measured my Dremel-esque cut-off wheel at 0.030" so I can use that styrene for cutting and then installing insulating block isolators.
Added value: I measured my Dremel-esque cut-off wheel at 0.030" so I can use that styrene for cutting and then installing insulating block isolators.
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Snowman
Well-Known Member
@Kiarev53, and by way of example: The real-world D&RGW mainline west of Denver has, as best I can tell, the single, sharpest curve of any mainline track on the entire system--a single sixteen degree curve in Burns Canyon. There is a speed restriction through the whole canyon of 20 mph (in both directions).
A sixteen degree curve has a radius of ~360 feet, or ~27 inches in N scale. This also the sharpest curve listed in the Rio Grande's curve vs. speed elevation table, so it's a safe bet there are no mainline curves sharper than this one anywhere else on the system.
The elevation chart lists (1/2" increments) allowable speeds of 15 mph for elevations of 1/2" or 1", 20 mph for elevations of 1 1/2"-3 1/2", and 25 mph for elevations of 4"-5" for a sixteen degree curve (5" is the maximum elevation listed for D&RGW track, even though other railroads sometimes go higher).
So why doesn't the Rio Grande bank that curve 4"-5" (25 mph) instead of only somewhere between 1 1/2" and 3 1/2" (20 mph)? Because there are other considerations for combination and/or reverse curves (reverse curves--"S curves"--change direction from right to left, or the other way 'round), and in this case the next curve (heading west) does indeed, turn in the other direction. This matters, because it's not only a need to elevate a given curve for a certain speed but also of coming back down to level (0") from that same elevation. With a reverse, or S curve, it's also necessary to bring the next curve up to ITS selected elevation (the elevation "switches rails") with a similar, gradual transition, and each transition takes a certain distance to make the change--I want to say the allowable change is 1 inch for every 100' track segment (known as a "station" in surveyor-speak), but I'm going on a long-distant memory, so I'm not completely sure about that.
However, and assuming I am right, a transition between a pair of curves, each elevated to 2 1/2" would take two and a half stations (250') for each rail to come back down to level. That would be a total of five stations (500') to affect that change in banking from one curve to the next. A 3" elevation for each curve would take 600', etc.
The transitions are done over a section of each curve known as "easements," where each curve gradually straightens out before meeting the next curve turning the opposite direction (these transitions are also known as "spirals," as they are laid out using mathematical formulas).
------------
"Very good"/aka "top-notch" model railroad practice is to use easements or spirals at the end of most mainline and even branch line curves, and even though our easements might be shorter (in the same way our curves are usually much sharper), some sort of transitions will also allow a given banking to come back down to flat and level--elevation zero.
There is more to model railroading elevation/super-elevation of course--there always is--but that's enough for this post.
----------
"We now return control of your eyeballs to you. It's safe to uncross them...and even have a stiff drink."
A sixteen degree curve has a radius of ~360 feet, or ~27 inches in N scale. This also the sharpest curve listed in the Rio Grande's curve vs. speed elevation table, so it's a safe bet there are no mainline curves sharper than this one anywhere else on the system.
The elevation chart lists (1/2" increments) allowable speeds of 15 mph for elevations of 1/2" or 1", 20 mph for elevations of 1 1/2"-3 1/2", and 25 mph for elevations of 4"-5" for a sixteen degree curve (5" is the maximum elevation listed for D&RGW track, even though other railroads sometimes go higher).
So why doesn't the Rio Grande bank that curve 4"-5" (25 mph) instead of only somewhere between 1 1/2" and 3 1/2" (20 mph)? Because there are other considerations for combination and/or reverse curves (reverse curves--"S curves"--change direction from right to left, or the other way 'round), and in this case the next curve (heading west) does indeed, turn in the other direction. This matters, because it's not only a need to elevate a given curve for a certain speed but also of coming back down to level (0") from that same elevation. With a reverse, or S curve, it's also necessary to bring the next curve up to ITS selected elevation (the elevation "switches rails") with a similar, gradual transition, and each transition takes a certain distance to make the change--I want to say the allowable change is 1 inch for every 100' track segment (known as a "station" in surveyor-speak), but I'm going on a long-distant memory, so I'm not completely sure about that.
However, and assuming I am right, a transition between a pair of curves, each elevated to 2 1/2" would take two and a half stations (250') for each rail to come back down to level. That would be a total of five stations (500') to affect that change in banking from one curve to the next. A 3" elevation for each curve would take 600', etc.
The transitions are done over a section of each curve known as "easements," where each curve gradually straightens out before meeting the next curve turning the opposite direction (these transitions are also known as "spirals," as they are laid out using mathematical formulas).
------------
"Very good"/aka "top-notch" model railroad practice is to use easements or spirals at the end of most mainline and even branch line curves, and even though our easements might be shorter (in the same way our curves are usually much sharper), some sort of transitions will also allow a given banking to come back down to flat and level--elevation zero.
There is more to model railroading elevation/super-elevation of course--there always is--but that's enough for this post.
----------
"We now return control of your eyeballs to you. It's safe to uncross them...and even have a stiff drink."
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Snowman
Well-Known Member
Part two--if you aren't using easements or spirals....
If this is your first layout, you probably aren't, so use the next best thing--think of it as "acceptable" model railroad practice: Fit at least a short section of straight track (aka "tangent" track) between any of your reverse curves. If you do your curve transitions this way, it's usually best to use a straight section equal or longer than the longest cars you plan to run. Call it 7 inches in N scale if you are going to run 89' flatcars, and six and a half inches if you want to run 85' passenger cars (and who doesn't?).
Visually this will look a lot better than nothing at all, and you'll also avoid one of the most common spots where derailments can occur on our model railroads. Turnouts/switches are #1 for derailments, with reverse curves running a somewhat distant second....
Now as far as transitions between the bankings, you can carry these right into the curves themselves and you can change bankings a lot quicker--it's going to depend on what looks good to you at the speeds you plan to run your trains. You can ALSO start your transitions right at the midpoint of whatever straight section you have put in between. So you can, but you don't have to, come down to level and then stay level for a while between curves before starting to bank the other way. Instead just keep the change you've picked and carry it right on through the straight track in between.
So lets say you want 3 inches of elevation for each curve (I wouldn't go any higher without doing some running tests myself) and you plan to run passenger trains, but not 89' flatcars. That means you'll want a six and half inch straight section between your two curves. Let's also say you are comfortable--visually--with a banking change of two inches over the length of your passenger cars instead of just one inch per 100'. In that case you would need a total banking change of six inches between your two curves (3" for each curve). A six inch change would require three passenger car lengths to affect that transition. That's about twenty inches of track overall (6 1/2" x 3). If you plan to run this section at a speed of 60 mph (88'/second), it'll take your trains about three seconds to transition between one banking and the next. It would look better if you ran this section at 30 mph (44'/second), because it would take about six seconds to affect the change from one bank to the other. Once again, it's mostly a question of what looks good or at least acceptable to you changing banking, and what doesn't, as far as speed goes.
So now lets say you are going to run a fifteen inch radius curve connected with a straight section of six and a half inches into the next fifteen inch radius curve banking the other way. In this case, you would consider flat or level (0") banking to be at the midpoint of your straight section, and you simply increase the banking of your track over the 10" running each direction from there, right into each curve. Voila! Twenty inches of transition between banks and no easements or spirals.
Of course it'll look smoother if you change more gradually, say one inch for each car length, in which case your transition would run ~20" from the center of your straight section, etc. for a total length of 40" (533' in N scale). At a speed of 60 mph (88'/second or about 6 1/2" per second), your trains would take about six seconds to bank from one turn to the other...and about twelve seconds if you run at 30 mph. Again, it's going to depend on what looks good to you and what doesn't.
Part three--how to actually bank the track in N scale--will come after MY eyes uncross. Right now I'm down to just one eyball, and that one is only half open. "Yawn!...Zzzzzz...".
If this is your first layout, you probably aren't, so use the next best thing--think of it as "acceptable" model railroad practice: Fit at least a short section of straight track (aka "tangent" track) between any of your reverse curves. If you do your curve transitions this way, it's usually best to use a straight section equal or longer than the longest cars you plan to run. Call it 7 inches in N scale if you are going to run 89' flatcars, and six and a half inches if you want to run 85' passenger cars (and who doesn't?).
Visually this will look a lot better than nothing at all, and you'll also avoid one of the most common spots where derailments can occur on our model railroads. Turnouts/switches are #1 for derailments, with reverse curves running a somewhat distant second....
Now as far as transitions between the bankings, you can carry these right into the curves themselves and you can change bankings a lot quicker--it's going to depend on what looks good to you at the speeds you plan to run your trains. You can ALSO start your transitions right at the midpoint of whatever straight section you have put in between. So you can, but you don't have to, come down to level and then stay level for a while between curves before starting to bank the other way. Instead just keep the change you've picked and carry it right on through the straight track in between.
So lets say you want 3 inches of elevation for each curve (I wouldn't go any higher without doing some running tests myself) and you plan to run passenger trains, but not 89' flatcars. That means you'll want a six and half inch straight section between your two curves. Let's also say you are comfortable--visually--with a banking change of two inches over the length of your passenger cars instead of just one inch per 100'. In that case you would need a total banking change of six inches between your two curves (3" for each curve). A six inch change would require three passenger car lengths to affect that transition. That's about twenty inches of track overall (6 1/2" x 3). If you plan to run this section at a speed of 60 mph (88'/second), it'll take your trains about three seconds to transition between one banking and the next. It would look better if you ran this section at 30 mph (44'/second), because it would take about six seconds to affect the change from one bank to the other. Once again, it's mostly a question of what looks good or at least acceptable to you changing banking, and what doesn't, as far as speed goes.
So now lets say you are going to run a fifteen inch radius curve connected with a straight section of six and a half inches into the next fifteen inch radius curve banking the other way. In this case, you would consider flat or level (0") banking to be at the midpoint of your straight section, and you simply increase the banking of your track over the 10" running each direction from there, right into each curve. Voila! Twenty inches of transition between banks and no easements or spirals.
Of course it'll look smoother if you change more gradually, say one inch for each car length, in which case your transition would run ~20" from the center of your straight section, etc. for a total length of 40" (533' in N scale). At a speed of 60 mph (88'/second or about 6 1/2" per second), your trains would take about six seconds to bank from one turn to the other...and about twelve seconds if you run at 30 mph. Again, it's going to depend on what looks good to you and what doesn't.
Part three--how to actually bank the track in N scale--will come after MY eyes uncross. Right now I'm down to just one eyball, and that one is only half open. "Yawn!...Zzzzzz...".
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Railtwister
New Member
The best way to use superelevation for N is to use the appropriate Kato UniTrack sections. They have entry-exit transitions that go from level on one end to super-elevated on the other (available in 22.5 degree curves of several different radii), and pieces available in 45 degree sections that are super-elevated all the way through the section end-to-end.
Bill in Ft. Lauderdale, FL (aka: Railtwister)
Bill in Ft. Lauderdale, FL (aka: Railtwister)
