My first layout


S

skeetley

New Member
Hi everyone.

I have been reading the posts before me and I have to wonder if maybe I should give up the HO dream and go N scale as I only have room for an 4' x 8' layout...

After looking through books and websites I found this track plan http://www.thortrains.net/4holay4.html (bottom right) to best fit my needs. I am more into running trains than scenery and realism etc. I'd like to have one (or two as this layout would allow) trains running while I could do some switching. This layout also allows me to do a crossover type layout by switching the turnouts in the back for longer runs.

My hesitation is due to the turn radii shown. I figure the outside loop is 22", the middle loop is 18" and the inner loop to be 15". From what I read online about minimum turn radius, the 15" loop is useless and the 18" is marginal at best for anything cars bigger than 40'.

What do you guys think? I like that layout a lot and I want to do HO, but if I can't run trains on it than it isn't the scale/layout for me.

Thanks for all input.
 
...the 15" loop is useless...
Click to expand...
I'm new to layout design also, mostly using RTS 7.0.

I wonder if some historic steam engine type models would make a 15" turn? Otherwise I think it would be mostly limited to trolleys and switching engines.
 
I think it would work fine if you get rid of that inner loop. It serves no other purpose other than to access industrial spurs. Those can easily be handled by making a siding off the second track loop to use as a ladder to get to those spurs. This gets rid of a useless 15" curve loop and opens up some more space if you want expand the industry spurs on the right side of the layout into a small yard or add a town. Real railroads don't lay track unless there's a reason, which usually means the track produces revenue. They would use the shortest possible route to those industrial spurs and not build a loop that had no use once you go past the industrial spurs. This is a typical "spaghetti bowl" kind of layout where as much trak as possible gets jammed in just because the space is there. Try to think of ways to open up space you can have some scenery and towns. That's what really makes a 4x8 layout work, not just lots of tracks running everywhere.
 
So if I wanted to run an 89' car on that layout, would it work (without derailing) on anything other than the outside 22" curve?
 
Even 22" is pretty sharp for an 89 foot car. It certainly won't run reliably on 18". If you want to run big cars on a 4x8, HO is the wrong scale for you. N scale would be much better.
 
Thanks Jim. I am coming to the same conclusion...

What about the layout shown below?

http://www.trainsetsonly.com/page/TSO/PROD/150-N18
http://www.atlasrr.com/Code80/pages/11018.htm
http://www.layoutdepot.com/designs.ihtml?step=3&fid=78&scale=N

The last one is 4x8 which I might try. I would make a couple slight modifications to this plan, but overall I like it. I has 4 loops that could be running trains independently and a yard, which are things I like. I like the idea of having one (or more) trains running while I control one. I'm still not much into the scenery or hardcore switching. I just like running long trains.

So with the layout above...do you gurus see any problems? I am trying to find the Atlas book which depicts the smaller layout to find out the curve radius because I still wish to run 89' autoracks. My readings seem to say 15" and bigger should handle these cars...is that a consensus? Does anyone have this book, "Nine N Scale Railroads" or the program RTS (file in 3rd link above)to be able to check for me? (I'm at work and can't DL the program)

Also, for what it's worth, is that a good price for the track, remote turnouts etc in the Train Sets Only link? Now I live in Canada so I have to add $55 to that price for shipping, but even then $550 is still cheaper than the regular $680 (or $675 on the Atlas website) which is what i think I would end up paying if I bought this layout in pieces from my LHS.

Thanks again everyone.
 
First of all, the sole purpose of the Atlas track plan is to sell track. They feed into the newbee concept that more track is better. After all, if running a loop is fun then running ten loops must be 10 times better. After the newness wears off, 10 loops is just as boring as one.

The key is to build a railroad that has a purpose and fits your image of what a model railroad should be. You are going to grow as a model railroader and you want your model railroad to grow with you.

For a a step up, check out my "Beginner's Guide" clickable from my signature. Takes about 5 minutes.
 
Here's a 42" by 84" N scale layout I came up with:

door05.gif


Notice, there's plenty to do, and you can still run laps--even put two trains in opposite directions.
 
Thanks for the post, picture and link Chip. I have looked at it all and I will continue to refine my plans during this most crucial part of my layout.
 
The first one is the best one you've shown us, but it's still someone else's vision, not yours. Until you take the time to figure out what you want you're spinning your wheels in my opinion. Is' going to cost you $100/sqft and 50 hours /square foot to build. This is the time to do your homework, not $3K down the road.
 
I've seen pictures of that layout in the link you posted just above. The layout show a really high level of craftsmanship in both tracklaying and scenery. I'm sure he's happy with his layout. I would hate it. Why? Because I like to build realistic towns and not have the layout overshadowed by the track. His town scene is obviously an afterthought. The roads are much too narrow and he has a public roadway crossing 9 tracks including his yard, industrial spurs, and mainlines. No real railroad would ever do that. It's actually the perfect place for an overpass - if he had planned ahead. I think it's fine to take bits and pieces from other layouts as an inspiration for your layouts but using a whole layout as a basis for your layout means you get all the warts of the other guys layout too.
 
Thanks Jim and Chip. It is comments like these that are proving useful to me in avoiding making mistakes during my planning process.
 
Hi, I thought I would post in here rather than start a new thread.

I am working on my very first lay out for a 4x8 Model. My major druthers are as follows:

Great Norther RR, F-series Diesel preferred
3 Stall Round house w/ Turntable
1 Bridge over some water
One hill with a fall forest (or winter pines, haven't decided)
a Tunnel through said hill
Some sort of town with working crossings
Some Industry to go with the rail house

I've done some initial design with the Atlas program and found that the size of the structures is going to severely limit how much I can put into the layout. I understand I'll need to make some sacrifices. My question for all of you is what tools would you reccomend I use to further my design and learn more about the give and take in my proposed layout? The RT7 program seems to only focus on track and some basic structures. I'd like to take my design to the next level to get a better idea of my rail road.

I should add, my construction goals are based on what I always wanted to build on my railroad when I was 9. I also intend for this initial plan to be a learning experience before I do something larger and more involved. I've also joined a local rail road club to get more experienced. I'm just looking to assemble as much information as I can before I make an investment.
 
Welcome aboard, Mansquatch. Just as an etiquette note, it is better to start a new thread so people can respond to just your questions. When you post inside an existing thread, it gets confusing as to who's answering what question. :)

XtrkCad is a much more feature rich program and it allows you place scenery and structures on your layout even before you have track. You can get it at http://www.sillub.com/. Although it appears to very daunting at first, plan on spending about a half-hour with the tutorial. It will be much easier to sue f you invest this initial time in learning the features.

The first question I'd ask is if you must use a 4x8 space or if that's just what seem like the "right" thing to do? 4x8 spaces are pretty confining in HO. They make reaching parts of the layout difficult and you end up with corners that don't really do anything. If you could do something like a 2x8 along the wall with 4x4 sections at each end, you'd open up a lot more room for scenery, industries, and towns, all which seem important to you. If you haven't yet done so, check out Chip's Beginners Guide at http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/BeginnersGuide01.html. I have built many layouts but I'm building my first in over 20 years since being out of the hobby and his guide was very helpful to me.
 
Ahh sorry about the poor etiquette, I am used to a board where the admins actually prefer all the questions to stay in general threads on specific topics, so my apologies.

I would say my vision is for something much larger and much more expansive than 4x8. Like perhaps a model of the Great Northern between glacier startion and whitefish including a working ski resort. Running engines from multiple eras. Perhaps including some coal and timber industry as well.

However, everything I have read points to the benefit of doing a smaller layout first in order to make and learn from mistakes. I figured by choosing 4x8 I would be on very common ground with most who start out. This is the sole reason I choose 4x8. So I am not attached to it.

One other thing: I presently am joining a RR club due to space constraints in my townhosue. I won't start my personal model until we purchase a single family home. (if the market is kind this should happen over the next 4-6 months, but this market is lousy) Long story short: This layout is very hypothetical at this time. Mostly I am seeking to learn as much as I can before I lay down my first track.
 
Ah, I understand now. Really, the 4x8 became the standard because is happened to be a standard size piece of plywood. It's not idea for a model railroad. Try rearranging that 32 square feet in the CAD program and you'll see how much more operation you can get by going around the walls instead of having one big piece of plywood in the middle of a room. Look for a new house with a basement or the biggest room you appropriate for a layout but don't get seduced by the size of the room itself. It's the amount of wall space without running into doors or windows that will allow you to build the biggest layout and still have space to move around the room.
 
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