Wiring a Peco 3-way turnout?


T

trailrider

Well-Known Member
I have decided to reconfigure one of my yards for more flexibility in operation. To do this I need to use a 3-way turnout. I happen to have a Peco, but I don't know if it is Electrofrog or Insulfrog. It is different from two others I am using on my layout, both of which have no wiring attached to the frogs. The insulating gaps in the turnout in question are in a different location from the gaps on the other two, and there are two wires attached to the underside of the frogs. One is bare wire and the other is insulated, coming from a different frog. I plan to throw the points manually, so no switch machine contacts involved. I have lost the directions from the turnout in question. Wiring those leads to a DPDT or some such would be inconvenient and would require separate actions. The locomotives that will be running in this area will be four-axle road switchers or possibly a 4-axle SW-type, with pickups from all eight wheels (2 trucks). Can I ignore the wires and simply run the locos over the gaps, or what? Or am I going to have to go buy (if available at my LHS) one of the other type?
 
Are the frogs all metal? If so, you'll have to put an insulating joiner on the rails coming out of the frog that attach to another track piece.
Are you using DC or DCC?
 
I read your other posts. So I am guessing your on DCC. With DCC you can buy a dual frog juicer and connect the frogs to that. That will automatically switch the polarity of the frogs. Do you have a wire connecting the frog rails to the rails right after the points?
 
I just took another look at the 3-way turnout. It appears to be Insulfrogs on all three frogs. The two frogs on the "downstream" end of the third frog and the points are the ones that have the two wires coming out. The righthand frog has the bare wire attached to the underside; the lefthand frog has the insulated wire coming out on the underside. I run either DC or DCC, depending on the locomotives. The layout was originally DC, and is set up with blocks and OFF-ON switches (DPDT to completely isolate the blocks). A heavy-duty DPDT toggle switch on the control panel allows me to select either DC or DCC. I am very careful not to run DC-only locos on DCC! I generally only run one loco or train at a time, as I am the only operator. (Have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time! :p) Most of the switchers running on that side of the layout (Denver or St. Paul...haven't made up my mind which it is) will be DC. If I were to run a non-dual decoder engine, it would probably be running in DC mode.

More than grateful for any suggestions, but would prefer not to have to use a Frogjuicer, etc. I think I may be okay if I feed power from the point end of the turnout, but I will listen to recommendations.
 
leva said:
I read your other posts. So I am guessing your on DCC. With DCC you can buy a dual frog juicer and connect the frogs to that. That will automatically switch the polarity of the frogs. Do you have a wire connecting the frog rails to the rails right after the points?
Click to expand...
See my post above, No, it doesn't look like it. Just looks like a bunch of jumper wires on the underside running longitudinally around the frogs. Beginning to think this is the same as my other 3-ways and I just cut those wires off.
 
Well, I started clipping the jumper wires that go around the right and lefthand frogs. I got the right and left diverging routes working okay, but for some reason I'm getting a short as the two axle truck bridges someplace, and I get a polarity reversal on the straight route? :eek: I think I will pull the turnout, turn it over and clip some more jumpers, then feed the straight outlet (a stub end) with a jumper from the point end of the turnout. I do NOT have power routing, which would be desirable. Might that be due to connections between the stock rails and the closure rails. It would be handy to keep the engine from jumping points that are thrown against it. Not a terribly big issue as the turnout is right near my auxillary control panel and I can see how the points are set.
 
trailrider said:
Well, I started clipping the jumper wires that go around the right and lefthand frogs. I got the right and left diverging routes working okay, but for some reason I'm getting a short as the two axle truck bridges someplace, and I get a polarity reversal on the straight route?
Click to expand...
Sounds like you are doing what I would do with an unknown. Power it from the point end, put a meter on the frog sides and watch what it actually does when you change each point.
 
I may be wrong, but if you can decipher that the 2 frogs are in fact completely segregated from the other rails via insulators, to me that says it's an all-live T.O.(which Peco calls 'insulfrog'). And if you are going to throw it manually I don't see what the problem is, other than stall-outs/shorts occurring due to long or short wheel base/4 axle loco trucks and how the pickups are wired to the motors..
I have an HO 'all-live' Walthers 3-way switch which, when I had my layout some engines stalled on it, not due to shorts, but due to insulators v wheel base length of each engine v pickup wheels.
If I can ever build a new layout I will use this 3 way in a yard but only push/pull cars through it. loco will employ a 'handle' (car/cars used, to reach in to cars that are past the switch (TO), same as is done on ferry slips due the engine's weight not allowed on the slip itself; and the 3 way thus being treated same as a ferry slip...This way will eliminate any possible stallouts/shorts through this finicky track section....
 
Whew! Finally! I turned the turnout upside down and cut the jumper wires around the insulated frogs, as I was experiencing short when the engine truck bridged across the gaps. Then I connected jumper wires from the point end of the turnout to the three diverging tracks. I installed insulated rail joiners on the inboard rails that are a continuation of the closure rails, and insulated joiners on both rails of the straight track. Voila! No shorts, no hesitation (at least with the DC Athearn Blue Box GP-7. I don't expect any problems with any DCC switchers as the entire layout is either DC or DCC, depending on which way the main panel toggle switch is thrown. The only thing I don't have is power-routing, which would be handy to prevent derailments running from the frog ends. That isn't so much of a problem as the turnout is right in front of the control panel, and the points are hand-thrown. I suppose I could cut the connectors between the closure rails and the stock rails, but why mess with it...if it ain't broke...
Anyway, thanks to everyone who offered suggestions!
 
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