Why is the hobby in trouble?


First I'm 21, and about to get 'serious' in the hobby (maybe). But I've been a railfan/foamer/enthusiast/photographer for a while, so this just adds another dimension to that hobby.

I personaly see several trends regarding attracting younger people into the hobby:

1st - cost. A lot of us started in this hobby by buying a Lifelike or bachmann train set, and running in on a circle of track. Not bad entertainment for $20. But if I was to get serious in the hobby and started searching through the online forums...well I learn that I need Kato or Atlas locomotives, $35 RTR freight cars, DCC, and a whole host of expensive equipment. The internet exposure this hobby has is two-fold. It is able to show more, but it also sets the playing field at a higher dolalr amount. I want that great layout I see...but since I can't afford it *all* now, I may not bother at all.

And today, everyone has enormous cell phone bills, they have their little Ipod thingies, their downloaded music, $80 jeans, $60 video games...where is the money for a SD70MAC?

2nd - If you want to attract younger age groups, you need to offer equipment that they have personally witnessed in operation. Steam is great, and so are Fs, Es, Baldwins, but I have never witnessed them in revenue service. Just tourist-orientated settings. I'm more interested in Gevos, dash-9s, and the latest in freight cars. (This also applies to accessories and industries)

3rd - It takes work to start in this hobby. Gone are the days you had several hobby shops close by. Now many go the internet route, but you need to do your own research. Takes effort and time. (Or if there is a hobby shop, it charges full MSRP, and may have some real cool R/C trucks that look real fun to play with) Or you have a model shop that won't give you the time of day.

4th - I refer myself as to being part of the "no trespassing" generation. How can you garner any interest in something that is so inaccessible? Plus the current school system chooses to completely ignore railraods or any industry for that matter, so no help there.

The hobby will be around...as long as there are forums like this one. Will it be able to replace all that are dying off each day? Probably not. But this is the fate shared by many other non-computer or gaming hobbies as well.
 
Russian said:
I got to agree with mtrpls. I've met lots of people trackside though and not all are really old. Some are even in their 30s!
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And some are 13...
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I believe Ryan has summed it up pretty good.
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Not sure that was a summary Willis, more like a short story ;)

I happen to agree with Ryans assessment..........the hobby is not in trouble, the industry however is evolving as are many industries.The internet has insured that this had to happen.
The print industries are scrambling trying to come up with something that will save them from extinction.........I wish them luck!!
Manufacturers are improving thier products and with better controls and sound becoming affordable, the hobby is rocketing into the next generation.......the future of MRR has never looked better!!!
 
This topic has been analyzed before on various Forums - and I agree with much of what's been said here. Where I see potential attrition is the limited stick-to-it-iveness of the noobs... or newbies. Their wide-eyed eagerness yields to other distractions. Whether it be conflicting hobbies, money pits - or life in general.

There is a stigma in that the stereotype of a "model railroader" can be seen at train shows or retail outlets. Few are "cool" or "hip" outside of the folks they run around with. I've visited train clubs, and been in stores for an hour or more at a time, and HO guys are hardly Gen X by any longshot. Ryan will prove me wrong there, using himself as an example. But he's an exception. Probably for every 10 kids who are weaned into model railroading with a train set at Christmas - 8 will abandon the idea of becoming a serious hobbyist. I do see more of a youth movement in N Scale however. It's not always more affordable - but perhaps space impositions have something to do with it.

Down at the two local HO clubs - it seems that the Yuppies disappear within a year or less of joining. Other things come up. Job transfers. Marriage. Kids. Etc. Etc. The perennial members are mostly retirees or the over-40 set with a healthy income. And as we know - the older generation(s) love their steam and wooden boxcars. They grew up in that era perhaps, or their first model trains were not concurrent with the prototypes around them. I seldom see a fellow over 50 running a Dash-9 with sound. They're running brass steam or California Zephyrs.

They, of course, poo-poo the idea of autoracks, coalporters, or TBOX cars sporting vandal's graffiti. So, unless the younger guys in the club have thick skin, or find more tolerant youthful clubs, that disparity alienates them. When someone today railfans - what do they see? Not stuff the old guys like. Unless it's an excursion train or something!

It's almost the opposite in N Scale clubs. The younger demographic is the majority, and the grandfatherly figures are rare. Manufacturers in N keep up with the newer prototypes (and seldom do steam) for this reason, I think.

The internet age - as pointed out here - is probably what's keeping the limited number of under-25 modelers' interest. Like Ryan said, back in the 70's or 80's, if you got frustrated or overwhelmed, that was that. These days, you can mingle with other fellows online with similar prototypical interests or concerns. Get your issues resolved easier. And what may be the biggest saving grace - you can post pics of your layouts or trains online. Something you couldn't do way back in the pre-internet Dark Ages. This gives the regular joes a sense of accomplishment. No longer does your modeling have to be top notch to been seen by anyone outside your area. Meaning back then that magazines were what we aspired to be in. You either got good enough - or threw in the towel. Today - even the most beginner of modelers can get exposure. Which leads to critiques, and presumably improvement. Finding a fellow modeler back in 1974 who would nurture you was difficult at best.

In closing however, I do think that the costs of sustaining this hobby are prohibitive, to newcomers. The products may have evolved to state-of-the-art... but the prices are reflective of that too.
 
> 1st - cost.

The hobby has always been expensive. Sure, when I was a kid, you could buy a freight car kit for $5. But that $5 was like $20 today, so nothing much has changed. I'll tell you one thing, the quality wasn't what it is today. You had to buy brass to get the details you get in RTR today.

> $80 jeans, $60 video games...where is the money for a SD70MAC?

All a matter of priorities...

> (Or if there is a hobby shop, it charges full MSRP, and may have
> some real cool R/C trucks that look real fun to play with) Or you
> have a model shop that won't give you the time of day.

It takes some effort, but you can find a good one. I visit Tacoma Trains in the North End of Tacoma. The owner is quite friendly and very helpful. He goes out of his way to help you find what you're looking for. There are several other shops in the area, and most (but not all) of them are quite friendly and nice to deal with. The ones that aren't simply don't last.

> I refer myself as to being part of the "no trespassing" generation.
> How can you garner any interest in something that is so inaccessible?

I know what you mean, but consider this. What's one of the most popular games/videos/books around? Harry Potter! The last time I looked the Hogwash Express wasn't on any timetable I could find. So it is possible to enjoy things you don't have first hand experience with.

That said, I do agree the numbers are declining and will continue to do so. As you mention, that's true of many hobbies.
 
The hobby is indeed seeing trouble waters for many reasons to include modelers and hobby shop owners that treat new hobbyist like they are the most stupidest people on the planet or simply because they have a 4x6 or 4x8 foot layout or uses DC...
For those that doesn't think the hobby is in hot water think of this..Why the Worlds Greatest Hobby push by those that stands to lose the most Kalmbach and the manufacturers? Then there is sticker shock when a newbie goes to the hobby shop for the first time.
On the happy side there are manufacturers like Athearn and Atlas that is bringing back high quality and low price locomotives and cars.
Of course all is not doom and gloom price wise..Savvy new modelers can buy at discount simply by buying through the mail or on line.

Of course the hobby as always had fly by night modelers that would come on strong and fizzle out after a short period of time for many reasons to include modeling to please everybody instead of their selves or worst trying to keep up the the Jones and Smiths of the hobby.Then you have those that dreams of that "dream" layout and finally fades into the sunset because they refuse to build a small layout..Their excuses are many and 90% of those excuses is lame..
 
i am a generation X-er (an older one) and i have loved this hobby, and trains in general, from as far back as i can remember. recently i have the means, confidence and most importantly the patience to take it seriously. the only way i could see the hobby in trouble is if manufacturers cannot afford to stay in business. but this board (and many others) is a testimony to the profound interest that still exists for this hobby. what i think many might expect is for kids or even young adults to take a serious interest in this hobby. but this hobby requires a significant amount of patience and discipline. qualities young people, by nature simply do not posses - especially in the age of automatic push button remote control instant gratification. apropos - you cant pick this up on a run by wally world or toys r us. I am just getting back into this hobby after a 25 year hiatus. It will be with me until the end of my time on this earth. As long as there is someone selling it, i will indulge in this. I am an optimist, so I believe that I am not the only one who feels this way. I believe as many generation x-ers get into their 30s and 40s they too will see the light. That this is the greatest hobby in the world.

Brakie said:
The hobby is indeed seeing trouble waters for many reasons to include modelers and hobby shop owners that treat new hobbyist like they are the most stupidest people on the planet or simply because they have a 4x6 or 4x8 foot layout or uses DC... ..
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^^That sucks. Fortunately that is not my experience. I dumbed up on a hobby shop in my area about a week ago. I found the shop owner to be quite pleasant and forthcoming with assistance and information. He was very polite even though I didn’t buy anything at the time (I was really just passing by and not on a train mission). He even turned on his N set for my son to keep him occupied while I talked with him. I do everything on line these days, but I will be doing all of my train business with him from now on, well before I visit hobby lobby and hobby town USA.
 
mtrpls said:
I'm 25 years old, and consider myself the 'future' of the hobby. I grew up around trains, being exposed to them every Christmas when we set up the Lionels around the Christmas tree. It was something to look forward to every year.

Today, I model a modern-day interpretation of the New York Central in HO scale, and consider my craftsmanship top-quality. Not to brag or anything. Being in my mid-twenties, I believe I can offer some insight into why this hobby is dying (YES, it IS dying, don't fool yourself).

1. Foamers. I'm sorry, I'm sure you're all great people, but you're just not something younger people want to model themselves after (no pun intended). I've been to enough train shows, exhibitions, and hobby stores to see this in action. Every foamer I've run into either has a gut that hangs three feet out over his belt, looks like he escaped from the nursing home, or is mentally retarded and "likes trains". *Creepy* Have you seen how the younger kids look at all the older guys in the hobby shop? They're like, "Oh, so NOT cool".

2. Mega mergers have sucked all the character out of America's railroads. Give me the days when our nation had dozens of major railroads in their respective regions of the country; today we're down to a handful of Class 1's. BORING. Today's railroads: Union Pacific, BNSF, CSX, NS are basically Wal-Mart on rails. No character, no charm, no individuality. Just a mega-corporation whose primary mission is to build shareholder value. BNSF, your new logo sucks, your entire railroad sucks. Give me back BN and SF!!!

3. Today's railroads are seen as "dead" or a "dying industry". It's true. The rail networks have lost so much market share to the trucking industry that some towns barely see a train per day. Most people correctly figure that America's railroads' glory days are over; they built the west, were mega industries vital to the flow of goods in our nation in the early 20th century, but now they've been relegated to the history books. Intermodal is a start, but the railroads need to make much more progress in taking back the transport of global freight.

4. Trains are seen as TOYS. Something to set up at Christmas. Cheap plastic crap that you run around on a boring circle of track, and they always derail and uncouple! What the hell?! Give me the video game console, please.

5. No marketing to kids. How many of you have watched childrens' daytime TV or the Cartoon Network? Prime time for kids, from 2PM to 6PM when they are sitting in front of the TV as a captive audience. Where are the commercials for train sets? Why isn't Athearn or Walthers advertising their RTR train sets? Maybe show the trains in an exciting, super-active environment (like commercials for GI Joe, Power Rangers, and other action figures) where the kids are having a BLAST with the trains.


So, these are my top five reasons for why this hobby is dying. It seems as though all of the products are geared to old farts. And, quite frankly and with no offense, that is how the people in this hobby are viewed: old creepy guys who like trains.

No offense to anybody here if they found my words to be harsh, but I am merely speaking my mind from a youthful perspective. Maybe you should listen to the younger people, design and market your products to them, and not allow your selfishness to force this hobby to die with your generation.
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I couldn't agree more with this. I am 18 and have been into trains all my life. I grew up all my life around trains. My dad and his friends started a train club and created a huge layout at a building in the county fair. I have been railfanning since I can remeber. But no one really knows that I do, it is manly because the hobby is viewed as weird and that creepy guys do it is why I don't tell anyone.
The cost is not that bad, but right now the ready to roll kits arent that bad, but I like the good old blue box athearns. I bought my first one when i was like 5 for $3.
Overall I know this hobby is dying. And right now there is really nothing being done about it. Thats the way it is, I would like it to change but i highly doubt that that will happen.
 
I just bought a ton of N scale stuff, basically an entire layout including a complete DCC system, the kind of thing that would have been the greatest thing that ever happened to me 5 or 10 years ago but now I feel like I don't have time to put it together the way I would like it done, I don't have time to be weathering everything, and I don't know what I would do when I actually get it done. This stuff is better than any HO Athearn GP-38-2 I ever had as a child and I still can't get excited, I always feel like something better is about to come out and that I should wait for it. I'm only 25 and I'm single and I still feel like I don't have the time or space to do this even in N scale.

If it makes anyone feel better I raced radio controlled cars semi-professionally through my early 20s and that hobby is in "trouble" too. It is getting exponentially more expensive and it is putting a serious devide between the guys who enjoy the hobby and the few who have the money and make the time to basically dedicate their lives to what is now a full blown sport.
 
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I know this thread is originally a couple years old, but thought I'd throw in my thoughts:
I am 25 and back brand new to the hobby. I had a train table when I was a kid and it's burnt in my head ever since. I always knew when I would get back into it some day. I think there are a lot of people out there in a similar position, they just need something to click to get them into it again.

Those who complain about the price, everything costs money. If you really want to be in this hobby, price is not going to scare you off. I do not have a disposable income AT ALL so I've been taking it slow and buying things when I could afford it. I still don't own a DCC system or any engines but that's ok cause my layout isn't ready for them anyways. Also I'm sure there is a huge difference in price even from the time this thread was started in 2005 to now. As things are out on the market longer, the price will come down.

This hobby is primarily enjoyed by older people. They have the time, money, and patience to jump in with both feet. As more and more baby boomers retire and rediscover their love for trains or modeling, I believe there will be a resurgence in this hobby. The trick is getting the spark ignited. Remind them of the trains they used to run as kids under their trees. Invite them to operating sessions or club meetings or train shows.

Get the next generation involved now! We all know why we like trains. It probably had something to do with an experience as a young child. We need to reach these kids NOW (under 10) and plant the seed! They may not be able to afford it now, but one day they just might remember how cool trains are and come back to the hobby!

That's enough out of this newbie! I am involved in a lot of hobbies and activities, but model railroading will always have a place for me now. It may get put on the back burner while time or money draw my attention elsewhere, but eventually that layout will get down and I'll be running trains!
 
I think it is the pessimists that are a bit older then us that feel this way. Personnally i have never met a 20 - 40 yr old modeler say that.

I have witnessed this type of conversation but i simply walk away as obviously me as a younger modeler don't count in their eyes. This hobby is age significant meening when i was pre- 16 i loved trains then left the hobby till i was 30.
 
It seems like this always pops up, in this case from a two year old thread. All I can say is find a ten year old Walthers catalog and then look at today's version. Even with Athearn not being included. I would guess there are at least a thousand more items available today that there were 10 years ago and, in general, the quality and realism is far better. Doesn't sound like adying hobby to me, just one that's changing.
 
I am new to these forums as of today, but I have been a fan of trains my whole life. I am 31 years old and am just getting back into Model Railroading. I'm also working on an MBA in Financial Analysis and Strategic Management. So from the latter background I'll voice a few observations:

1) People out of college, ie 25-35 year olds are first and foremost limited by space. Most people in this age group with disposable income live in an urban setting, probably in an apartment or townhouse. Few can spare the space for a Model RR.

2) Video games provide nothing tangible. As adults age, they start wanting more than just the instant gratification of XBox. I am going through this transition myself. I grew up with Nintendo, Atari, and everything inbetween.

3) Parents are not going to spend more than $100-$150 on a train set, let alone a locomotive for a 9 year old. Not unless he shows interest in the hobby after initial exposure. This volume is different than $200 locomotives or other more hobby specific items. However, it does seed the generation for future involvement.

4) Trains are a fact of life and they are not going away. I have worked in the world of investments since 1998. Even then tranportation was consolidating and losing revenue: Why? Because Freight is always the first business to go sour in a recession. It is also the first to pick up in a new boom. The fact is, the business cycle does not change the fact that almost every boy loves to hear the sound of a giant diesel engine. Every boy has placed a penny on the railroad tracks to "see what happens" or heard a story to that effect. Trains are part of our culture and part of our lives. They are not going anywhere. I suspect that neither will Model Railroading.

All of the companies could do a better job of marketing, from the internet to the hobby store. Here is a recent example: I am getting back into the hobby and went to an O gauge store that carried huge amounts of product. There were 6 guys, all frieinds of the owner, running trains. The owner (who closes his shop at 5PM each day...) told me to come in on Saturday to meet some of his customers and talk trains. (I had told him I was new to the hobby which was mostly true) So I showed up at the prescribed time and sure enough people were there running trains, all of them at least 25 years older than me. (I am 31) I spent 45 minutes in the store, I looked at every product and watched every train. Not once in the time I was in that store did anyone even speak to me. If I were on the fence about the hobby I would have been very turned off.

I don't think the Hobby is dead. I just think it might need to make some changes to sell itself to new generations and bring itself into the 21st century. It has many positives going for it. Complexity is great, it keeps people interested. But Flash is what gets them interested. Flash sells. The hobby needs more flash.
 
You have a good point and i agree with allot of it including this portion.

Mansquatch said:
I don't think the Hobby is dead. I just think it might need to make some changes to sell itself to new generations and bring itself into the 21st century. It has many positives going for it. Complexity is great, it keeps people interested. But Flash is what gets them interested. Flash sells. The hobby needs more flash.
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It is allot of small time promotion that'll get the hobby to grow. Right in our own neighborhoods. You see we are everywhere don't doubt that.
 
I'll take a shot at this....after being away from the hobby a few years I would agree that certain aspects of the hobby have changes. Specifically local hobby shops are now gone and the internet seems to be ther new trend and/or large national retailers.

With the younger crowd this is no different than other things. We've lost a whole generation of kids to the internet and the xbox/ps2. When was the last time you saw some 10 to 14 year old sit down a play a board game or play baseball outside all day long.

Mine were introduced to chess over Christmas break and really enjoyed it. You have to be willing to take the time and introduce something. Of course as a parent you have to balance out things with the techno games, but that ok too.

I see the market has improved with equipment and the selection, while not in-expensive by any means its the way things are, but there are still good options available for those that cannot spend great sums of $. I count it a blessing that I have the ability to enjoy these things with my son and my daughter has even poked here head into the train room too.

I will tell you it can be a lot less expensive than this which I was busy with instead of toy trains. Talk about a select and depressed hobby !!!
 
From what I can see the hobby is alive and well. There's not as much model railroad supplies being bought from the hobby shops because many modelers now order their supplies online and cut out the middle-man. I must confess that I'm one of them, but I also frequent a hobby shop in Alexandria that sells Athearn BB items and I can usually get a good deal on them as well as some of the Proto 2000 items he has. His model railroad stock takes up two and a half aisles and two display cases. That doesn't seem like much until you consider he has four cases and six aisles. He has a pretty good turnover on his model railroad stock and has supplies on hand for scales N through G. If he doesn't have it, he can find it.
 
It would help if clubs would get away from the mentality of "steam or transition" only. Guys who grew up in that era are approaching the end of their service lives. We need to recruit and retain a younger generation to continue this hobby and this younger generation grew up on SD40-2's and GP38's. An all era club modeling everything from 40' wood box cars to well car unit trains would provide a venue for everyone to run. I ran, not walked, away from one Ft. Worth club that wouldn't let me run anything past the transition era. I'm 32 and I grew up with bankrupt blue Rock Island Geeps and Warbonnet six axles. While nice, I've got no interest in modeling a by-gone era that ended 20 years before I was even born.

Real railroads have had to adapt and evolve. So must the modeler if this hobby is to not only thrive, but survive.
 
Overseas Point of view...

I just think, How many we are at this forum? How many forums are on the net?
How many of we, post here at least twice a week?

I believe that the Hobby its not walking by the green mile, we are making this hobby keep alive, everyday with just see if theres a new comment at this forum.
We are the hobby!!!
 
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