Wheel Corrosion (?), Broadway Locomotives


Wouldn't Coke clean the corrosion off? I've used that on battery terminals before (remove the wheels from the trucks first).
 
Atlas replied:
Atlas locomotive wheels are machined from brass, which is then nickel
plated. The plating prevents pitting of the wheels due to arcing.

Thank you very much for the reply Ted
I'm beginning to think the primary problem with the Broadway wheels is just too thin of a plating of nickle, particularly when the plating comes off the whole wheel as I've shown in a few photos??


Wonder if this has anything to do with the price/availablity of nickle in China?

Nickle Prices...interesting that there was an almost triple price increase a few years ago...
http://investinmetal.com/?page_id=4[/QUOTE
 
Wouldn't Coke clean the corrosion off? I've used that on battery terminals before (remove the wheels from the trucks first).
Interesting idea, but do you want to run around with bright brass wheels on your locos??
 
the thought that comes to mind for me is there might be galvanic corrosion going on. Some elements just don't do well together, for example, copper and iron.
 
Galvanic corrosion? Copper and iron? While you information is correct, where is the iron, other than the magnets in the motor? A fair distance between the motor and the wheels. And galvanic corrosion is only possible with direct contact.

Bob
 
The wheels have corroded badly to the point that the loco fails to make electrical contact in order to run. It will not run in this condition, and the tracks are clean nickle-silver.

1) Has anyone else experienced this corrosion effect??
2) Is it just confined to certain models, and/or certain periods of production?
3) Could it be due to a change in vendors within China that produced certain models, and/or a change in vendors that supplied the wheels??
4) Could it be a change in the metal materials utilized by the manufacturer??

You don't by chance use a Kadee wheel cleaning brush do you? If so, throw it away. That thing was designed for Athearn sintered iron wheels, and that's all it's good for. It will take the plating right off anything modern. It may have nothing to do with your problem, but is good advice. I have not seen this sort of corrision on any BLI/PCM/Blueline locomotives until you posted your pics. I have asked a few questions and will see what answers I get back.
 
Athearn reply

...an email I sent out to various manufacturers of locos and wheel sets:


Dear Sirs,
I have been experiencing some significant problems with locomotive wheel corrosion on some Broadway Ltd locomotives, one steam loco so far, and several diesels.

I have been trying to do a little investigating on how the best wheel construction is made, and what constitutes the best materials.

I would really appreciate at the very least a short note from each of you as to your preferred construction materials for wheel-sets in HO products.

I have started several discussions on some forums, and included photos of some problem wheelsets for review.

Thank-you for your inquiry. Please note that we use nickel plated brass wheels.
Athearn Trains
 
Galvanic corrosion? Copper and iron? While you information is correct, where is the iron, other than the magnets in the motor? A fair distance between the motor and the wheels. And galvanic corrosion is only possible with direct contact.
Bob

Might be some other metal involved, perhaps Lead, especially since these are made in China ;) What are the parts directly in contact with the wheels made of?
 
I have talked with a contact at Walthers. There has not been a streak of returns to them for wheel corrosion problems. They feel it is likely that this was a result of a bad batch of plated wheels. I would push BLI to replace the bad wheels. Were all the models that had this problem purchased in the same time period. We have several dozen of their locos, steam and diesel at our club. Nobody has had this happen. As annoying as it must be, it seems to be a localized problem.
 
I would ask a Broadway Limited customer service about this, I think they would replace the wheels. There is no nickel plating even on the sides where there would be no wear. This doesn't seem right to me.
 
I had typed up an answer to these questions, but it got lost in the computer somewhere...must has punched the wrong button.
You don't by chance use a Kadee wheel cleaning brush do you? If so, throw it away. That thing was designed for Athearn sintered iron wheels, and that's all it's good for. It will take the plating right off anything modern. It may have nothing to do with your problem, but is good advice.
No, I do not use a Kadee wheel cleaning brush. In fact when these photos where taken I had not cleaned the wheels at all. The locos were new, and had been run very little, and were sitting on the layout and one on the workbench.

My track and wheel cleaning usually consist of running a roller type track cleaning car with citrus based Goo Gone around the layout a number of times. I them follow this with a slider type 'Armstong' box car to dry the track prior to running trains.

My one sin is still having some cars with plastic wheels. This plastic slowly gets deposited on the rails and collects on the loco wheels. I clean these loco wheels by placing a paper towel across a section of track, soaking it slightly with Goo Gone and running first one end of the loco onto the towel, and then the other end. This is very effective at cleaning the wheels of the locos. This is usually a blackish sort of dirt that I assume is the plastic coming off of the freight car wheels over time.

At any rate that is the method I have used for at least 6 years now and it seems very effective, and it has not produced any problems as I now experience with some of these BLI locos lately.

I repeat go back and look at that C&O 2-8-4 IHC mountain steamer I posted photos of. Two of those been physically setting and running out on the layout for 6-7 years, and cleaned in the above manner...NO ILL EFFECTS. That is what good wheels should look like. I also have two CSX Spectrum diesels that have seen the same treatment...no such wheel problems either.

Espeefan said:
I have not seen this sort of corrosion on any BLI/PCM/Blueline locomotives until you posted your pics. I have asked a few questions and will see what answers I get back.
The purpose for my posting of this problem was to try and determine if others had experienced these problems. So far it does not appear to be. Possible some of this lack of experience could be due to the large number of modelers who never run their trains, but have them stacked up in their collections still in their new boxes? Or maybe the large majority are stored/operated in a low humidy/good AC environment. Mine are in the basement (but it does have a dehumidifier running most of the time).

I have so far run into a number of random references to the 'discoloration appearing corrosion' on the ClassA 2-6-6-4 steamers (at least 6 so far). I have not run into many complaints about the diesels, other than the brass metal showing thru on the thread surfaces in very short order.
 
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I would ask a Broadway Limited customer service about this, I think they would replace the wheels. There is no nickel plating even on the sides where there would be no wear. This doesn't seem right to me.
I tend to agree with you here. I think the plating was insufficent, if at all. I think they got a defective batch from their sub-contractor. As I've said, I'm trying with this posting to determine the extent of the problem, and/or make others aware so that they inspect their models more closely...maybe even unbox a few locos and leave them out on your RR.

BTW this is the layout these locos set on.....and it is FOR SALE as I am moving overseas.

...more here
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=93274&posted=1#post93274
 
I tend to agree with you here. I think the plating was insufficent, if at all. I think they got a defective batch from their sub-contractor. As I've said, I'm trying with this posting to determine the extent of the problem, and/or make others aware so that they inspect their models more closely...maybe even unbox a few locos and leave them out on your RR.

BTW this is the layout these locos set on.....and it is FOR SALE as I am moving overseas.

...more here
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=93274&posted=1#post93274


Love your layout and your inter-modal yard and over head crane.

I have heard great things about Broadway service. I think they will do something for you. You might be out $10 to $12 to ship it to them but it will be worth it. Even if you went to the trouble of cleaning and polishing the wheels they will just corrode again. Call them and explain your situation and explain that your other engines are not having this problem.

Jerry
 
I have heard great things about Broadway service. I think they will do something for you. You might be out $10 to $12 to ship it to them but it will be worth it. Even if you went to the trouble of cleaning and polishing the wheels they will just corrode again. Call them and explain your situation and explain that your other engines are not having this problem.

Jerry
I have been in touch with them and they have offered to replace those wheels that present a connection problem.

My feelings were that this was just not an isolated problem of mine, but might affect a batch of peolple who may have received product with this problem....that's my reason for posting a subject thread on this problem. I also posted a similar subject thread right on the BLI forums.

Sure I might get my particular problem resolved, but where does that leave other hobbist...particularly those that never know of the problem until years later.

And is BLI unaware of the problem in the larger picture, such that they replace my wheelsets with defective ones as well??
 
Possible some of this lack of experience could be due to the large number of modelers who never run their trains, but have them stacked up in their collections still in their new boxes? Or maybe the large majority are stored/operated in a low humidy/good AC environment. Mine are in the basement (but it does have a dehumidifier running most of the time).

I have so far run into a number of random references to the 'discoloration appearing corrosion' on the ClassA 2-6-6-4 steamers (at least 6 so far). I have not run into many complaints about the diesels, other than the brass metal showing thru on the thread surfaces in very short order.

The BLI models at our club sit on the layout (we're in a large basement under a shopping center) and are run regularly. We have samples all the way back to their earliest runs of the NYC Niagara and Hudson. No plating failure or wheel corrosion on any of them. Nobody has a Class A though.

I think the "bad lot of plating theory" holds, and I would insist that BLI customer service replace every wheelset that failed. I think if you gently insist and point out that the display value is comprimised by the corroded wheelsets, they'll cave and do the right thing. As for replacing only those that effect electircal connectivity, well maybe not today, but what about tomorrow? Nope, all of them please!
 
Big Boy driver wear

...from the BLI forum on this subject...

I have noticed something that bothers me. My Blueline Big Boy came back form warranty service, runs great. I happened to look at the wheels and mine are worn though to copper on three drivers, and a number of the tender wheels are showing copper..... This is a six month old loco. I never looked at the condition of the wheels. Never thought to on a "new" loco. Has anyone else seen this sort of wear? My track is less than one year old, and clean. I'm baffled. I'm going to mention this to service as well.
 
This is the second Broadway (BLI) locomotive I've experienced this phenomena with. Look at these attached photos of a Blueline RSD-15 loco I had sitting on my workbench at my layout in the basement of my former house.

The wheels have corroded badly to the point that the loco fails to make electrical contact in order to run. It will not run in this condition, and the tracks are clean nickle-silver.

In contrast look at the photos of the Broadway E7 and AC6000 locos sitting in this same environment for 1 year, and 3 months respectively...clean wheels with no sign of corrosion. (in contrast the RSD-15 had only been there for 2 months).

1) Has anyone else experienced this corrosion effect??
2) Is it just confined to certain models, and/or certain periods of production?
3) Could it be due to a change in vendors within China that produced certain models, and/or a change in vendors that supplied the wheels??
4) Could it be a change in the metal materials utilized by the manufacturer??

At any rate this is a totally unacceptable situation to experience, particularly since I intend to take a lot of my trains to a hot, humid environment in Thailand.

And I am even more concerned now about the fair number of Blueline locos I've purchased recently that are still stored in their original packaging. and not exposed to the open air.

Where are the attached photos mentioned in this posting??
 



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