What am I doing wrong here?

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J

Jess Red Horse

Friendly Indian!
:mad: OK , heres the picture in a nut shell, I have a 4X8 layout with two individual track systems running so the grandsons have their own train to operate, the outside loop is a basic circle this one has no problems what so ever, the 2nd track is an inside loop with 3 turn out sections where trains can be parked, it is this track that will only accept one type of locomotive on it and that is the GP-40 anything else like an F-7 will derail and not always at the same point???

I can run 1 locomotive by itself, if I add cars, the cars will derail but not always at the same point, it is as though I can't predict when or where they will derail?

I've triple checked my track connections, they are all clean and seem to be getting enough power but I can't figure out for the life of me what is going wrong on this track???

Any suggestions or help will be much valued before the Grandsons come back to play.

I clean the tracks before each session, I check the connections, set the trains properly on the rails and no mater at what speed I'm still having problems, what the heck am I missing here?

Other details, code 100 atlas track, with atlas turn outs, cork road bed, not a very big track, locomotives run on track 1 work great but the same locomotives on track two act up, skip, hesitate, derail and sometimes come to a complete stop, both tracks are fed through a switch system which checks out with a meter?

Please help?

I'm loosing my mind here!!!:mad:

Thanks in advance for any help, guesses or speculations.
 
Hey Jess,

Your trouble could be a number of things like wheel alignment, coupler height, Locomotive quality, rolling stock weight,
track alignment and so on. Start with the basics and purchase a NMRA Track Gauge:
http://www.trainbuddy.com/Reference/nmra_gage.htm
Some of the other guys will come along and give you some better ideas.
 
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Can you show me a pic of the F unit and the GP unit? The rear end of it where you hook up the cars? Are you using horn hook couplers? I think I can help if I can see a pic...
 


I'm with Josh in suspecting the track radius. The outside track is probably the widest radius, maybe 22", the inside loop is probably 18" at best. Engines and cars just don't run as well with tight radius curves. Add to that the three switches and you have the recipe for trouble. The GP-40 ma have the best wheel alignment while the F-7 may have a wheels out of alignment. Checking all wheels with a gauge like Old 97 linked to will solve a lot of problems. Adding switches coming out of tight radius curves is also an issue because the train want to pick the points and derail. This can be misalignment of the track or the need to file the points so they are more sharp or widen the flangeways. It's really a process fo elimination so start with checking wheel alignment and then move on to some of my other suggestions.
 
I'll have to check my tracks when I get home.

I'm using horn hook couplers on the train cars that were derailing and knuckle couplers on the one that doesn't derail so the problem might be there?

I have to head out for a 24hr. shift but will check all these suggestions when I return, Thanks!
 
Jess, horn hook couplers could be a part of the problem. They don't have as much side swing as knuckle couplers and they lock together much more tightly than a knuckle coupler. Both can contribute to cars being pulled off the track in a sharp curve. Most of us replace horn hooks with knuckle couplers as the first thing we do with a new car because of all the problems that horn hooks cause. That, and the fact they're ugly. :)
 
Horn hooks also put constant side pressure on each other so they're always trying to knock each other off the track so to speak. Definitely, for the cost of them go with knuckles like Kadees.

Mark
 
Hi Jess, {A 24h EMT shift, that longer than most Dr. work I think?]

Mark made some good points as well as Jim & Josh, the couplers have a lot to
do with proper operation. An easy way to confirm this is to swap the trains and see if the one with the knuckle couplers doesn't run better on the inside track due to their being more manuverable than the HH's! I, like many railroaders have a bag full of unused HH couplers for all the reasons mentioned above.

It seems with all the prior help you should be well on your way to solving your
delema.

Another couple of things to double check it that track connections [joints] are smooth and in line without any sharp changes in the curverature. Also check that any nails holding the rail down just barely touch the tops of the ties so as not to depress the tie in a shallow V shape which will pull the two rails closer together and may tend to cause some problems too. Also I would believe that the length of the cars may also have some bearing on the tighter inside radius.

Check all these things and your problems should dissapear!
 
We all figured out my track mess

Ok, I promised that I'd post the reason(s) my cars were derailing and all most everyone who replied to my desperate cries from the deep dark layout were correct, it wasn't one problem but a mixed bag of problems.

Since I couldn't be by the speed controller and watch the wheels close up at the same time I had my wife run the trains around as I used a zoom on my video camera to tape the wheels as they made their way around the tracks then I could play the run back, fix a problem and then on to the next derailment.

A) On one of the track joints the tie was indeed nailed down too much causing the ones before and after it to pop up and it was on a corner so that made it worst.

B) On another joint I had missed one of the joiners and did not assemble it right it was sitting under one rail causing it not to have a correct current when the track section moved up and down on that end, also I missed a track spike here.

C) One section was oxidized and under a magnifying glass was pitted all along the insides of the track with this white build up this was a problem section which was replaced.

D) At one point I noticed a small 2-8-0 lift up on a curve and that was because the track was twisted "Out of wacky".

E) And my personal favorite was the one the furthest away from the controller that was "clipping" the side of my bridge and knocking it off the track but just after leaving the bridge, now I could hear this one clicking when the train would go by but after many inspections of the track there I could find nothing until watching the video.

I want to thank all of you who have helped me with this frustrating problem, too those who answered my plea for help on the board and also too those who PM'd or emailed me, all together I got close to 30 replies all with great suggestions to try.

It took 6 hours to figure this all out and make the corrections but well worth it in the end when I could watch the 2-8-0 and the diesels run the tracks with no screw ups, after about 50 successful passes I was confidant that the night mare was over.

I'm grateful to all of you, you're the reason this hobby will never die!

If I were to hit the lottery I'd buy you all your dream locomotives!!!

I'm always humbled by the big hearts and great minds who allow me to hang out with them in cyber space.

Again a big steam powered THANK YOU!!!

Jess Red Horse of the "Lower blood pressure" Tribe.
 


Cool Jess...I suspected you might find a couple problems. I hope that's all the issues you'll have. ;)

Let us know how the G-kids like it, (as well as you!)

Rotor
 
Say Jess,
Your very welcome, it can get frustrating when things like these happen but that's all part of learning the various aspects of the hobby and gald we were all able to offer you some helpful pointers.

It's a lot more enjoyable when the trains run the way you expect them too!!

It sounds like you stayed with straight DC control, is that correct? That's what I did but found a Radio controled hand held throttle that will allow you to operate trains from anywhere in the room and it fairly inexpensive. Sure beats being tied to the transformer and gives a whole new perspective to opperating your locomotive and no chip is required as the unit varies the track voltage fright from the hand held controler! I really enjoy mine as it's more like your right in the cab controling the locs speed, stoping and reversing from any location and because it's radio controled there are no wires to teather you anywhere and it even works from behind walls as line of sight isn/t required!!

If interested let me know and I'll give you the details of where to get it!
 
Good job tracking down all the issues, Jess. Very few people take it as methodically as you did. As you wrote, it's almost always more than one problem and the bad news is that other problems will crop up again. Take the same approach you did this time - detective work instead of frustration - and you'll have a lot happier MR experience.
 
Trussrod said:
Say Jess,
Your very welcome, it can get frustrating when things like these happen but that's all part of learning the various aspects of the hobby and gald we were all able to offer you some helpful pointers.

It's a lot more enjoyable when the trains run the way you expect them too!!

It sounds like you stayed with straight DC control, is that correct? That's what I did but found a Radio controled hand held throttle that will allow you to operate trains from anywhere in the room and it fairly inexpensive. Sure beats being tied to the transformer and gives a whole new perspective to opperating your locomotive and no chip is required as the unit varies the track voltage fright from the hand held controler! I really enjoy mine as it's more like your right in the cab controling the locs speed, stoping and reversing from any location and because it's radio controled there are no wires to teather you anywhere and it even works from behind walls as line of sight isn/t required!!

If interested let me know and I'll give you the details of where to get it!
Click to expand...

Yes I stayed with DC for now, and yes again about sending me a link for the hand held controller, Thank You!
 
Wow, that's a thread worthy of its own website! Sounds like you ran the gambit of most everything that happens with a new layout. Video taping it was a great idea... (now let's see that again in slo mo!) LOL
Kudoos for staying with it Jess, good to hear you're up and running!
 
Hi Jess,

You'll really enjoy the flexability this unit offers!

The Hand Throttle or what they call, 'The Basic Train Engineer', and the receiving base is manufactured by CREST. I purchased mine from from Hobby Linc, click the Power site, it's at the bottom of the first page on the Right side at: http://www.hobbylinc.com/prods/un.htm

They do offer a more advanced unit but if I remember correctly it still needs decoders in the Loco's?

HTH
 
That is FANTASTIC news! I'm glad you got it figured out. The knowledge in this group is second to none.

BTW, wireless throttle without a doubt is "the shiznit". :) I built mine (computer controlled DCC rig) but anything where you can move around freely is worth every penny.

Mark
 
Hi Jess,

A bit of added info about the Crest 5480 Unit:
I ment to tell you that the Crest unit has momentum built in so slow starts and gradual slow down incrfease the enjoyment of the unit. It also has an Emergency Stop button if needed. While it is push button it has 128 steps of speed adjustment. I know mine is very fine adjustment as I like to run my locs slow, climbing steep grades which I have again requires some additional throttle and the hand throttle instantly responds but in a prototypical way through the sending unit near the transformer.

At first I figured I wouldn't like the push button controls but it turns out that it works great and I find it more enjoyable than a dial control!

HTH
 


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